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Messages
2
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Location
Walsall
# of dives
None - Not Certified
I have search but cant find anything so i hope I'm not going over old ground.

I am looking for somewhere to learn to dive I've been looking a PADI and BSAC and there are loads of places here in the landlocked West Midlands! I have recently passed a fit to dive medical after speaking to a local PADI centre (I knew nothing about BSAC before speaking to them)

So on to my point I don't want to just qualify and do nothing so I've been advised to join and learn with a BSAC club. There are 2 very local to me 1 is not taking new member and the other i am going to speak to in a couple of weeks unfortunately they meet on a day that is difficult for me.

Does anyone have any recommendations of a really good friendly club in the west midlands?
 
Either one will teach you to learn to dive.

PADI is more commercial. You pay for a product (training), you get it and then you're on your own. Better PADI shops will organize "loose" clubs to keep people diving and to arrange for people to network with buddies etc. but it's up to you how much time you invest in that.

BSAC clubs are more like "classic" clubs, where you pay a membership fee and get some benefits and part of that includes training. You'll be part of the club and as a result there will be a sort of organized "buddy" for you.

In terms of the theory and practice of learning how to dive there are differences but they are marginal, if you ask me. Full disclosure, I am a PADI instructor and I am fond of their training curriculum because it is didactically sound and gets you in the water quickly and diving competently without making it seem overly complicated. That said, better BSAC clubs will likely do that as well.

BSAC standards are historically similar to CMAS standards but there is some drift. In main lines the "standards" are just a check list of things you need to learn. On the up-side, the standards between various organisations are very similar with a lot of overlap. There are differences in nuance and accent but some of the most accomplished divers on the planet have had PADI training and some of the most accomplished divers on the planet have had BSAC training. The most important thing is the quality of the instructor you have, not which "check list" they use. In terms of diver training there is a LOT of difference, even within a single agency, of the quality of individual instructors. Just like at school where one Math teacher was a lot better than another Math teacher.....

So that's the down side..... A good BSAC club will make you an outstanding diver and a poor BSAC club (I have seen them in action, much to my amazement) will put you at risk. The very same thing is true of PADI. A good instructor will give you a solid foundation and a good spring-board for further training and a poor instructor will put you at risk.

So that may not be helping you a lot but if you look at it in main lines then if your main focus is to "join a club" of like minded people who enjoy their hobby together then you are probably best off looking for a BSAC club. If you are looking "buy" training and get it over with so you can go diving without the "ballast" of having to be part of a club, then go for PADI.

.... And in both cases, if you are looking to get the best quality education you can, then ignore the differences and focus on the skills of the individual instructors you have at your disposal.

Hope that helps.

R..
 
You may get better feedback about BSAC asking in the British Isles discussion area (British Isles).

What @Diver0001 says is spot on, and learning to dive correctly, with a good instructor will help you enjoy diving more. There are shops and people who just want to do the minimum to get your money and those are usually cheaper. Paying more up-front may be harder to justify, but good instruction is worth it. You'll be more comfortable in the water when you finish, and that will equal more enjoyable and safer diving.
 
As Diver0001 said, in the UK you generally have two choices, unless you are in Scotland where there is also ScotSAC.

PADI is a commercial organisation. Pay as you go. You sign up for a course (Open Water) , the course will happen on the date agreed, in the time schedule agreed. The expectation is that you will move from course to course.
One big advantage is that you could do a referral, where the theory and pool (sheltered water) sessions occur in the UK, and then complete the course overseas, in a warmer climate, doing the open water session.

BSAC is a branch based system. The Branch you join provides the training. The instructors are all nationally trained and assessed. (It is possible to go to a BSAC School, which is a commercial facility - similar in structure to a PADI facility).
The big thing is that branches vary significantly, some are very focused on diver training, some are not interested. Some have boats, some don't. Some go diving, some don't!
You 'could' do a referral through the BSAC, but this is a little more difficult, because branches don't intend you to do this, so are not structured to recommend or support it. A lot of the cost advantage of being a branch member would be negated.
If you intend to learn with a branch interview them, make sure they have a number of ACTIVE instructors. Make sure they are the type of people you want to spend time with, make sure they go diving, and include diving for the lower qualifications.
Where a PADI course will be setout on a specific timetable, a branch teaches using volunteers. This can take a long time.
The PADI course will probably be two weekends, one weekend covering theory and the pool work. The second covering the open water diving.
BSAC branches will teach weekly, either both pool and theory each week, or alternating pool and theory. The open water dives will fit in with peoples spare time, and generally this is where things can slow down.
One big advantage with BSAC is that the people who train you are the people you will be diving with. A good branch means you always have a pool of divers to go diving with. The general philosophy is that you are always being taught and are learning.
You should be able to complete two qualifications in the first year - if you are proactive - if they are an active branch.

The starting qualifications are very similar - PADI open water, and BSAC ocean diver. The core basics of diving are the same, any way you slice it these fundimentals have to be taught. The variation occurs as you progress. BSAC qualifications intergrate rescue into the core training from the start, PADI teach rescue much later in its structure of qualifications.
Decompression diving is part of BSAC dive qualifications, you may or may not choose to do compulsory decompression and only do no stop dives, but you are qualified to do it if you wish.
BSAC is very structured to UK diving, its intention is to teach divers that can work as a buddy pair, independent of instructors or other members of the group. Seamanship , boat skills, rescue, etc are all part of the structure of BSAC training and course.

I am a BSAC instructor, I am also a lapsed PADI DM. I started with PADI, then joined BSAC. I hold qualifications with most agencies. TDI, IANTD, to name two.
You can move between the agencies. Most BSAC branches are more than happy to have PADI divers join. A PADI diver can either dive on their PADI qualification, or cross over into the BSAC qualification structure, as they wish.
There is a branch finder function on the BSAC website which might be helpful. www.bsac.com

Gareth

PS our branch forum is here www.sisac.co.uk/forum or the website www.sisac.co.uk

If you have any specific questions fire away.
 
Thanks for all the feed back i guess i need to just visit some of these different places and see which seem the best for me
 
As an instructor I would like to clarify one thing.

90% of the quality of the instruction depends on the instructor, not of the diving federation.

I've seen very good PADI instructors and very unprofessional ones. I've seen the same with NAUI, SSI, IDD, IANTD, ACUC and ANDI.

All of them follow the standars of RSTC and basically their standars are very similar.

Of course PADI has the bad name because most of the DCs in the famous diving destinations are padi, and they rush the curses, and most of the times they hire unexperinced cheap instructors.

But on my experience, i have to say that away from the diving factories, i like Padi the most. The most i worked with other organitzations the more i like Padi. What i hate is the bad use that many DC do of PADI.

Now, what i recommend you to do is to find a Dive Center that offers you time spent underwater.

If they tell you that yoh can do the course in 2 and a half or 3 days... they are rushing it. If they tell you that the time to do the course depends on you and not on them... then that is the correct Dive Center for you.

I recommend you this article:

“You are a very good instructor”. 7 things you should know before saying this sentence.

Happy Bubbles

Gery #ScubaLegends
 
The UK PADI magazine "Scuba Diver" tends to feature a different club in each issue. Why not drop them a line and ask who they have reviewed in your area? You can also buy an issue of their magzine in digital form.

Good magazine; I'm not PADI and I buy it, have for years.
 
I'm a UK diver and trained up to Rescue Diver with PADI and then did the techie stuff with IANTD and TDI instructors. I have recently joined a BSAC club.

BSAC have a reputation for being slow to get you in the water, but that depends on the club. A bad one will drag their heels, but mine is very active. I would advise that you consider doing PADI Open Water first with a dive school. This way you can get qualified quicker. Most BSAC branches will allow you to dive to your existing qualification. If you get PADI Open Water, it is considered to be similar to Ocean Diver, and you can then begin Sports Diver training with a BSAC club.

Most diving courses are only as good as the instructor, so don't worry about agencies, as they are roughly similar. One advantage of BSAC training though, particularly for UK diving, is they teach you more about seamanship.

If you want to dive in the UK, joining a BSAC club is the best thing you can do. Many have facilities such as RHIBs, compressor, clubhouse etc; having access to a boat will help get you out more, and allow you to dive a variety of sites.
 

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