Vehicle Recovery Policy

[b934firefighter]

My PSD Team is considering coming up with a policy to govern how we deal with non-emergency vehicle recoveries and the possibility of tagging on to the wrecker companies bill that they submit to the insurance company. We are considering a flat fee and only expecting payment if the insurance company pays the wrecker bill. (Not expecting the wrecker company to pay out of pocket) My questions are these; What are your thoughts? Do any of you out there have a policy in place that I can look at? If we charge a fee will that force us to follow OSHA commercial diving regulations? Any insight or discussion would be appreciated.

 

[ReefGuy]

My PSD Team is considering coming up with a policy to govern how we deal with non-emergency vehicle recoveries and the possibility of tagging on to the wrecker companies bill that they submit to the insurance company. We are considering a flat fee and only expecting payment if the insurance company pays the wrecker bill. (Not expecting the wrecker company to pay out of pocket) My questions are these; What are your thoughts? Do any of you out there have a policy in place that I can look at? If we charge a fee will that force us to follow OSHA commercial diving regulations? Any insight or discussion would be appreciated.

Our agency will not pull a vehicle unless it is an emergency. We used to pull any vehicle that was a "navigational hazard", ie bonus training for the team, but that was changed several years ago, by order of the sitting sheriff. I believe that the reason was that several of the local businesses felt we were encroaching on their profit margin, and they have a point.

If you charge to remove a vehicle, I'm pretty sure that would fall under the definition of commercial diving and therefore remove your exemption from OSHA requirements. If you don't, you may be able to argue that the removal was a "navigational hazard", and therefore a recovery and exempt. A lawyer may tell you differently, and I'd take their word over mine. Also, remember that this only applies to the Federal OSHA. You may have a state level OSHA that supersedes the federal one. Be sure to check this before setting your policy.

 

[b934firefighter]

Thanks for the reply. It makes since that we could/would fall under OSHA commercial regulations if we charged a fee. And I will definitely be checking on the State Level OSHA as well. It would be nice if we could recoup a little of the expense involved with a vehicle recovery, ie man power, equipment wear and tear....but probably not at the expense of commercial dive regulations. Thanks again

 

[BRT]

I own a wrecker service. We have done almost no recoveries where divers had to hook us up to the vehicle but I don't think the insurance company would expect the diving to be free.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

All non-emergency tows should be done by the wrecker service. They should hire the diver. By showing up and then hooking because you are there, cuts out someone else from making money. It can also smell of (impropriety) by bullying our way in and then making money due to our being police or fire. This is especially true if your agency determines which wrecker services are on their rotational log and they have to be inspected. They will feel obligated to be quiet but the diver that gets cut out will see it as dirty and will raise a stink. And he should. I am a police diver as well as a private diver who works for many local towing companies. On the police side if I have just checked a vehicle and found it clear or recovered a body, I am working. I am already being paid. As I am already there a diver is not usually called, but I still give them that option. If I hook it up I will never send a bill because, like I said, I am already getting paid. If I am off and get called out by the towing company then I submit a bill and am paid. In this aspect I would be angry if a FD or LEO showed up and decided they were going to just decide to do this (and ask to be paid) and leave the towing company no choice. In the same light we only unlock vehicles for those we know, or when animals and babies are locked in and the temps are hot. Pop a Lock is our local company. The unlock babies and animals for free. If we go around unlocking cars we are cutting them out of money.....not cool. That is their living. That's my $.02. Mark

 

[b934firefighter]

We do about 6-8 a year. Mostly stolen vehicles dumped in the river or reservoir.

---------- Post added March 27th, 2014 at 10:11 PM ----------

All non-emergency tows should be done by the wrecker service. They should hire the diver.

By showing up and then hooking because you are there, cuts out someone else from making money.

It can also smell of (impropriety) by bullying our way in and then making money due to our being police or fire. This is especially true if your agency determines which wrecker services are on their rotational log and they have to be inspected. They will feel obligated to be quiet but the diver that gets cut out will see it as dirty and will raise a stink. And he should. I am a police diver as well as a private diver who works for many local towing companies. On the police side if I have just checked a vehicle and found it clear or recovered a body, I am working. I am already being paid. As I am already there a diver is not usually called, but I still give them that option. If I hook it up I will never send a bill because, like I said, I am already getting paid. If I am off and get called out by the towing company then I submit a bill and am paid. In this aspect I would be angry if a FD or LEO showed up and decided they were going to just decide to do this (and ask to be paid) and leave the towing company no choice. In the same light we only unlock vehicles for those we know, or when animals and babies are locked in and the temps are hot. Pop a Lock is our local company. The unlock babies and animals for free. If we go around unlocking cars we are cutting them out of money.....not cool. That is their living. That's my $.02. Mark

There are only two organized dive teams in the two adjoining county areas we serve. The other team only has three certified divers left and have rarely had success with hooking a vehicle. They are actually considering giving up the dive componet of their rescue squad. There is also a local dive shop in the area that has been assisting wrecker services for years (before our team formed) but I dont think he charges them. My team has been organized and utilized as a resource for about 8 years now. We are part of a municipal fire department swift water rescue team. It seems as though we get the call most often to assist with locating and clearing these vehicles. In the past we have just looked at hooking up the vehicles as a favor to the tow companies. We have a good working relationship with most of them and they help us out often with training vehicles. But now we are being called from agencies outside of our primary response area requesting dive team assistance. We hate to deny them aid so we respond taking resources out of the area we are paid to protect and basically assisting the wrecker company with recovering a vehicle. I dont think its as issue of taking money out of anybody elses pocket because there isnt anybody else to call, so to speak. That is why the thought arose about trying to recoup some of our expenses.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

We do about 6-8 a year. Mostly stolen vehicles dumped in the river or reservoir.

---------- Post added March 27th, 2014 at 10:11 PM ----------




There are only two organized dive teams in the two adjoining county areas we serve. The other team only has three certified divers left and have rarely had success with hooking a vehicle. They are actually considering giving up the dive componet of their rescue squad. There is also a local dive shop in the area that has been assisting wrecker services for years (before our team formed) but I dont think he charges them. My team has been organized and utilized as a resource for about 8 years now. We are part of a municipal fire department swift water rescue team. It seems as though we get the call most often to assist with locating and clearing these vehicles. In the past we have just looked at hooking up the vehicles as a favor to the tow companies. We have a good working relationship with most of them and they help us out often with training vehicles. But now we are being called from agencies outside of our primary response area requesting dive team assistance. We hate to deny them aid so we respond taking resources out of the area we are paid to protect and basically assisting the wrecker company with recovering a vehicle. I dont think its as issue of taking money out of anybody elses pocket because there isnt anybody else to call, so to speak. That is why the thought arose about trying to recoup some of our expenses.

Perhaps a mutual aid agreement with an agreement to render payment to the Fire District (or whatever terms you use) by the insurance company when possible. This can be done through the LE Agency and the towing companies to keep things above board. if there is full coverage the recovery entity is entitled to be paid by the insurance company. If it goes to the entity and not the individual, and there is no one being "cut out" than that should be doable. If you would like some tips for finding, hooking and recovering vehicles made easy and with a lot less effort email me at diverecoveries at charter dot net. Mark Michaud

 

[BRT]

All non-emergency tows should be done by the wrecker service. They should hire the diver. By showing up and then hooking because you are there, cuts out someone else from making money. It can also smell of (impropriety) by bullying our way in and then making money due to our being police or fire. This is especially true if your agency determines which wrecker services are on their rotational log and they have to be inspected. They will feel obligated to be quiet but the diver that gets cut out will see it as dirty and will raise a stink. And he should. I am a police diver as well as a private diver who works for many local towing companies. On the police side if I have just checked a vehicle and found it clear or recovered a body, I am working. I am already being paid. As I am already there a diver is not usually called, but I still give them that option. If I hook it up I will never send a bill because, like I said, I am already getting paid. If I am off and get called out by the towing company then I submit a bill and am paid. In this aspect I would be angry if a FD or LEO showed up and decided they were going to just decide to do this (and ask to be paid) and leave the towing company no choice. In the same light we only unlock vehicles for those we know, or when animals and babies are locked in and the temps are hot. Pop a Lock is our local company. The unlock babies and animals for free. If we go around unlocking cars we are cutting them out of money.....not cool. That is their living. That's my $.02. Mark

You are right and I was wrong. In our area it would be hard to find a commercial diver to do it, I'm not interested unless it were simple, so my thought was pay the emergency response people. But if there is someone making it part of their business government agencies shouldn't be competing with them.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

You are right and I was wrong. In our area it would be hard to find a commercial diver to do it, I'm not interested unless it were simple, so my thought was pay the emergency response people. But if there is someone making it part of their business government agencies shouldn't be competing with them.

I agree. In this day and age of political corruption we have to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. To many paying the first responders seems like a no-brainer. Unfortunately it can cause issues. But it this it can be done properly so that the agency is paid if the circumstances fit. We just have to cross our t's and dot our I's.

 

[KJ4SFL]

I would say if you keep doing it don't charge any $ for the service. Treat it as that, a service call. If something else comes up you leave and come back later.same as the cat up the tree, yes we still have those calls here....

Currently there is no commercial set up in my area for retreaving cars/trucks from the lake and river. Surprisingly it doesn't happen much. There are a few tow boat companies that handle boating issues however. If its a boating dive all we do is check for people, mark it with a bouy and call the next tow boat on rotation.