Unsafe divers on my boat!

[mlcircle]

I just read Rick Murchison's posting (http://www.scubaboard.com/t61446.html) and know that a bad diver doesn't necessarily come about because of bad training - or vis-versa. That being said, however, I have to admit that I have to resist cringing when I get on a boat and find that there are inesperienced divers from one particular agency: PADI.
On a recent trip to NC for some deep wreck diving, our first trip was on a 6pack with my team (3 of us: all Advanced Certified and one of us a certified Rescue Diver) and 2 PADI divers. We were going 34 miles out into the Atlantic and diving on a wreck at 117 fsw. We signed in on the clip board and the other two divers were PADI Open Water certified - one with only 13 dives and who had been certified 12 years before! The other diver had 33 dives. We later found out that the more experience diver was diabetic and had siezures... none of which was shared with the other divers. The other divers did NO BUDDY CHECKS and one of them didnt secure his tank and it came out of his BC at depth.
My question is this: there are stupid divers and good divers for ALL agencies - this is certain - but how can I, as another diver on a boat trip - protect myself and others from BLATANT STUPIDITY like this?????
Neither of them had the training or certifications for these dives and should have not been on the boat. One of them had medical problems that VERY EASILY could have lead to his death and possibly the death of his partner too. Obviously the dive shop was FAR more interested in the money than the safety of the dive so - how can we protect ourselves from being put in these situations?
Or - am I just stupidly naive? Should divers go on a boat and not give a damn about the other divers? This isnt what Rick did (see above) and I would hope that when (not if) I make such an error that someone "does the right thing" and helps me out.
Open to all suggestions here.....
Signed,
Frustrated Marc in Decatur, GA

 

[ShakaZulu]

Ignorance is definately bliss..........unreal.

 

[Mako Mark]

It sounds like whoever was signing the divers up for the trip was not checking if it was apropriate for them. We have that a lot here as a large proportion of our clients come from travel agencies and sales people who wouldnt know a regulator from a rubber duck.

 

[Don Burke]

You'll find that most dive operations are more interested in seeing the MasterCard than the C-card, let alone check experience.

I drive a dive boat from time to time and new people just scare the crap out of me no matter what their certification.

 

[fmw625]

I'm newly OW certified (June 26,2003) with only 4 dives. you could say that I'm a newnewby. I plan only to divewithin my experiance,confidence level. Just want to know how can I dive and gain experiance if people do not want to dive with me. They will know that I'm really new for now since I'm diving with a temporary c-card. Hope other divers won't feel that I'm imposing on them. BTW I'm also 53 y/o and will probaly be the old newby every time I dive. I love diving and want to log about 30 dives to increase my confidence/experiance level, then take AOW.

 

[Don Burke]

I'm newly OW certified (June 26,2003) with only 4 dives. you could say that I'm a newnewby. I plan only to divewithin my experiance,confidence level. Just want to know how can I dive and gain experiance if people do not want to dive with me. They will know that I'm really new for now since I'm diving with a temporary c-card. Hope other divers won't feel that I'm imposing on them. BTW I'm also 53 y/o and will probaly be the old newby every time I dive. I love diving and want to log about 30 dives to increase my confidence/experiance level, then take AOW.

I would dive with you. If you are ever in the Norfolk area, look me up.

 

[6Gill]

I just read Rick Murchison's posting (http://www.scubaboard.com/t61446.html) and know that a bad diver doesn't necessarily come about because of bad training - or vis-versa. That being said, however, I have to admit that I have to resist cringing when I get on a boat and find that there are inesperienced divers from one particular agency: PADI.
On a recent trip to NC for some deep wreck diving, our first trip was on a 6pack with my team (3 of us: all Advanced Certified and one of us a certified Rescue Diver) and 2 PADI divers. We were going 34 miles out into the Atlantic and diving on a wreck at 117 fsw. We signed in on the clip board and the other two divers were PADI Open Water certified - one with only 13 dives and who had been certified 12 years before! The other diver had 33 dives. We later found out that the more experience diver was diabetic and had siezures... none of which was shared with the other divers. The other divers did NO BUDDY CHECKS and one of them didnt secure his tank and it came out of his BC at depth.
My question is this: there are stupid divers and good divers for ALL agencies - this is certain - but how can I, as another diver on a boat trip - protect myself and others from BLATANT STUPIDITY like this?????
Neither of them had the training or certifications for these dives and should have not been on the boat. One of them had medical problems that VERY EASILY could have lead to his death and possibly the death of his partner too. Obviously the dive shop was FAR more interested in the money than the safety of the dive so - how can we protect ourselves from being put in these situations?
Or - am I just stupidly naive? Should divers go on a boat and not give a damn about the other divers? This isnt what Rick did (see above) and I would hope that when (not if) I make such an error that someone "does the right thing" and helps me out.
Open to all suggestions here.....
Signed,
Frustrated Marc in Decatur, GA

It seems to me that whoever is running the trip DM or Boat Captain should be checking the diver's credentials. If a diver isn't qualified to dive beyond 60 ft. he or she shouldn't be going to 117 ft. If the diver who was certified 12 years ago hadn't dived since that certification (Log Book) he shouldn't been allowed to dive without a refresher course.

As for the medical problems (Diabetes, etc.) how does a DM or boat captain check on this? Divers are not required to have a medical ID card to verifiy their medical condition. Diver's with medical problems are responsible for themselves. If they shouldn't be diving they know it and are asking for trouble. Nobody ever said that SCUBA Diving was without risks even for divers in good health.

I think that the means to prevent these types of things are there if the people that should be checking and enforcing do their job!

As for requiring medical cards or more legislation, permits and/or re-certification I'm very much against it! The means are already there just use them!

 

[KBeck]

Living in a scuba destination spot, I have seen divers with many backgrounds who make mistakes. Honestly, I think most are earnest, they just aren't INFORMED. It goes back to the training issue that so many of our members discuss. On just about every boat dive I do with a charter, I see someone with a slipped tank--I've learned to keep an eye out for it, and say so after the dive on the boat--hopefully, each of those people will never have it happen again.
I think often the trick is to inform the less knowledgeable divers without coming across as a know it all snot--people are more inclined to listen if they're not being embarrassed.
As for newbies and getting on boats--when I was still very newly certified, I tried very hard to make it clear my lack of experience and resulting nervousness--you'd be surprised at how few of the dive boat operators cared or made effort to accomodate. I have a whole list of dive boats I won't get on because of their attitudes at the time. (Granted, I live in a place where I have the luxury of doing so). Their attitudes were almost enough to make you want to just keep your mouth shut and not tell them....funny how it goes both ways.
I find that I do my dive, try not to worry too much about the other divers and just keep an eye out in general.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

My question is this: there are stupid divers and good divers for ALL agencies - this is certain - but how can I, as another diver on a boat trip - protect myself and others from BLATANT STUPIDITY like this?????

Granted, some divers tend to dive beyond their abilities, but unless it is your boat, it's not your business to determine who's on-board.

No one wants to see a diver die, and most of us will do all we can to help, but why do you feel you were in danger, since you were within your abilities and had a competent buddy? Just keep your distance.

You might have a talk with the captain, LDS sponsoring the trip, or DM. Or, better yet, the divers. I would suggest a calm, tactful discussion, but based on this post, I'll bet that wasn't possible.

 

[lee08]

New divers make better dive buddies than the "I know it all" divers you find on most dive boats.