Under Armour using Celliant, like Bare

[stuartv]

I just saw news today that Under Armour is now making a new line of undergarment called Rush. The Rush garments are using the Celliant tech, just like Bare advertises for their Reactive/Evoke and Velocity Ultra wetsuits. I thought was kind of interesting.

UA RUSH. Scientifically Tested. Athlete Proven.

They claim that:

During performance, the body emits heat. The responsive UA RUSH fabric absorbs that heat and converts it into infrared energy that is re-emitted back into the body. This recycled energy increases temporary localized circulation, promoting improved performance, energy and recovery. When worn, UA RUSH stimulates increased endurance and strength.

I got a Bare Reactive 5mm suit recently. It is WARM. But, I am not yet convinced it's any warmer than it would be, for example, if it it was fully lined with Merino wool, like Pinnacle (?) offers with some of their suits.

The whole "absorbs heat and converts it into infrared" just sounds like Marketing BS, to me. Radiated heat and "infrared energy" are the same thing, as far as I know. So, how is that different than any fabric that absorbs heat and then radiates warmth once it is warm? The only thing I can figure (if I stipulate that there is some legit truth to their claims) is that the fabric is somehow constructed where it radiates the heat back more to the inside of the garment, rather than equally in all directions. Maybe it has some kind of outer layer or coating or something that makes it work like that? I don't know.

In other words, it's not a metallic reflective material, like a "space blanket" that people take camping for emergency use. But, it could be a material that, on one side absorbs heat and, on the other side, has some kind of insulative property, so that the heat absorbed on the other side can only radiate back out the side it came in from.

I don't know. Regardless, either Celliant tech actually works to some degree or their Marketing department is REALLY good!

 

[Vicko]

I googled and can't find anything about Celliant except marketing pitches from matres companies and this wiki article:

"Celliant is a brand-name synthetic polymer bi-component fiber made from polyethylene terephthalate with optically active particles embedded into the core. Hologenix LLC, the company that markets the fiber, paid for a single study that claims it increases oxygenation in body tissue and demonstrated to reduce minor aches and pains.[1] Initially marketed as Holofiber, Hologenix changed the name to Celliant to avoid confusion about the nature of the core of its fiber. Celliant is claimed to interact with electromagnetic emissions (e.g. infrared light) produced by the human body to achieve the increased oxygenation.
"
I found that a good quality neopene means more then any kind of coating they put on it. I actualy prefer the open cell suits a lot more.

 

[Ryan Neely]

I have no personal experience with Celliant or any other wetsuit lining. While I am extremely interested in emerging technologies, I am also very skeptical of marketing. There are several PR websites promoting Celliant's approval by the FDA as a "medical device." (Again, they are PR websites, so anything they say must be viewed with a critical eye.) Additionally, Celliant's website offers links to four "independent" studies analyzing this product. Only one of them declares openly that Hologenix (the company behind Celliant) was a sponsor of the study. Since none of the others offer any insight directly in the report as to their sponsors, it is very likely that each of them were funded by Hologenix. However, each of them do state that Celliant does appear to offer a "slight" warming ability. Further, Celliant's website offers a link to a spreadsheet graphic with the names of several additional studies that must be Googled (no links provided).

Study One, Study Two, Study Three, Study Four, Grid, The First Study from the Grid

Without poring through all of that data (and then researching the funding sources for each study), it's difficult to say whether Celliant is all it's cracked up to be. Maybe @stuartv can run a study of his own? I'm not certain how this would work. Two dives. One with the Bare Reactive and one dive with a different suit. Clearly you couldn't do two dives within a single day because it's likely your core temperature would drop between dives, so the results would be flawed. You'd have to do them on subsequent days in the same body of water at the same water temperature. How you measure that would be difficult at best. (Though, I suppose you wouldn't have to dive to prove the Celliant technology worked. You could sit in an a cold room and don each wetsuit separately. A simple thermometer placed between the body and the suit in the chest area would likely work. Sitting as still as possible in each suit so as to not generate excessive body heat. Maybe twenty minutes in each suit would be enough to see which one retained its warmth against the cold room.)

I'm getting carried away.

Still, I'll be interested in hearing anything empirical others could share.

 

[stuartv]

Ha ha! I think the most scientific test I'll be running on this suit is "am I as warm or warmer than I was in my old SP suit at the same temps." Which is to say, not scientific at all.

I was always felt like the Celliant "technology" came with a huge helping of Marketing Hype. But, that doesn't mean there is nothing at all in there that makes it good. Like I said earlier, I'm thinking that it is probably comparable to other suits that have a Merino wool or similar lining.

But, I thought it was interesting that UA has picked it up. I think it would be interesting to compare a UA Rush shirt to a UA shirt that doesn't have the Celliant tech in it and see if you can notice a difference in the warmth.

 

[Ryan Neely]

I'm always leery about Marketing Hype, but there's just something that draws me to the idea of a Celliant or Merino type lining. As long as your warm, that's all that matters.

It is interesting that UnderArmor has picked up the Celliant technology. I love all my UA gear, but I'm curious about why a person would want a "warming" material added as part of clothing typically worn for extreme activity (i.e., I wear my UnderArmor gear to get hot and sweaty during a workout or some other physical activity, I'm not certain I'd appreciate having an extra warming layer.)

Perhaps using a UA shirt as a kind of rash guard liner under your wetsuit might be a benefit, but running a 5K or something would probably cause overheating (in my opinion).

It would be worth trying once, just to see. Perhaps for cold weather activities like snowshoeing or cross-country skiing.

 

[Caveeagle]

I'm not certain I'd appreciate having an extra warming layer.)

As a base layer worn under a drysuit. If it works, it would be nice to ad warmth withought added bulk and buoyancy,

 

[stuartv]

As a base layer worn under a drysuit. If it works, it would be nice to ad warmth withought added bulk and buoyancy,

Totally agree. But, now I have to wonder how the wicking properties of UA Rush compare to other alternatives for a base layer. I feel like good wicking and just about anything that creates an air gap to the drysuit shell is better than anything that doesn't wick well.

 

[stuartv]

I'm always leery about Marketing Hype, but there's just something that draws me to the idea of a Celliant or Merino type lining. As long as your warm, that's all that matters.

It is interesting that UnderArmor has picked up the Celliant technology. I love all my UA gear, but I'm curious about why a person would want a "warming" material added as part of clothing typically worn for extreme activity (i.e., I wear my UnderArmor gear to get hot and sweaty during a workout or some other physical activity, I'm not certain I'd appreciate having an extra warming layer.)

Perhaps using a UA shirt as a kind of rash guard liner under your wetsuit might be a benefit, but running a 5K or something would probably cause overheating (in my opinion).

It would be worth trying once, just to see. Perhaps for cold weather activities like snowshoeing or cross-country skiing.

UA has their HeatGear line for working out in a warm environment. They also have ColdGear, which I guess you might use when outside in cold weather. Maybe Rush would be an alternative to ColdGear.

The fleecy lining really sounds appealing to me, too. I am really looking forward to trying the Reactive suit in the places I have been diving, to see if I can really tell any difference. I have worn my SP EverFlex 5/4 on a dive that was 32 minutes at 65' max (40' avg) at 49 degrees (9C). I was cold at the end (it was the third dive of the day), but not shivering. I was starting to get leg cramps, though. If the Bare does better than that, I will be very happy.

 

[Ryan Neely]

You'll have to let us know @stuartv. I'm headed down to the Twin Cities on Wednesday to hit all the dive shops and try on a handful of wetsuits. One of the shops carries the Bare Reactive as well as some Cressi and Tilos wetsuits. Trying them on side-by-side in the store is different than trying them on in the water, but hopefully I'll be able to tell a little difference.

Sounds like your diving conditions are similar to what mine will be, so it will be good to hear your final thoughts once you've had a chance to use the Reactive in real time.

As a base layer worn under a drysuit. If it works, it would be nice to ad warmth withought added bulk and buoyancy,

I hadn't thought about a drysuit. That tells you how far away I am from going that route, yet. It's all about baby steps for me, but this will be good information to file away in my memory palace for when it comes time to think about a dry suit.

 

[stuartv]

I talked to one of my main dive buddies today. He has the Henderson Thermaxx in 3mm and 7mm. He wears the same size as I do.

I'm going to get a Reactive 3mm as well. When I get that, he and I are going to do a comparo, with suit swapping, so we can each see what the other suit is like.

@Ryan Neely if you're going to be diving anywhere near MN, you should really think about a drysuit.

Seaskin makes very nice suits. Made to measure and very inexpensive. My Nova is fully optioned out and was still only $1100. Fits great and very high quality. The base suit, with no options, is still made to measure and starts around $650. Their made to measure compressed neoprene suits are even less.

Dry Suits from Seaskin Custom Drysuits home page - Seaskin Custom Diving Suits