Tropical Wetsuit Experiment

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Akimbo

Just a diver
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Location
Mendocino, CA USA
Earlier this year I finally went on my first tropical liveaboard. I was a warm water newbie except for a week of diving with a T-shirt and trunks about 40 years ago. This was also my first liveaboard that didn’t require steel-toe shoes and a hard hat on deck.

Off-the-rack suits never fit me well. Since using one of my 7mm suits wouldn’t cut it, I looked into a custom 3mm. Custom gave me a blank slate to try whatever I wanted. The evolution went something like this:

I have always preferred wetsuits with Nylon lining on the outside only. Nylon-1 is more flexible, reduces water circulation, and is less abrasive against waterlogged skin. The disadvantage is they are harder to don; nearly impossible without a lubricant. We used corn-starch or baby powder as a lubricant in the old days. However, things have changed.

The diluted soap spray that modern freedivers use makes these suits so slippery they are effortless to don. The best part is you don’t care if the inside of the suit dries or not… ever struggle to put on a damp wetsuit with Nylon? Complete drying is a problem when splashing every few hours.

I have had terrible luck with zippers over the years. They are much better today but still fail, and always at the worst possible time. My simple-minded solution is no zippers. I am comfortable diving two-piece freediving suits with a farmer-john and pull-over jacket. The two changes I wanted were a mock turtleneck instead of an attached hood and Scuba rather than freediving material (for better long-term compression resistance).

All the custom suit makers I spoke with were convinced I would not be happy with this suit and figured I would be back for a Nylon-2 one-piece back-zip 3mm suit before my next trip. I ordered it anyway. My new suit arrived and fit perfectly.

Easy donning was important because liveaboard diving means donning wetsuits 4-5 times/day for a week. My one complaint was pulling the jacket down over the external Nylon lining on the farmer-john pants was a struggle. I planned to live with it but the problem continued to bug me. I found that even damp Nylon lining slid pretty well on another layer of Nylon so I had the jacket modified with Nylon-2 on the bottom part of the jacket that contacts the farmer.

I am gearing up for my second tropical liveaboard early next year and can’t think of anything to improve on this suit (which is an anomaly for me). These photos are of the inside, front and back.
 

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  • 3mm Jacket Mod Inside-Back.jpg
    3mm Jacket Mod Inside-Back.jpg
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  • 3mm Jacket Mod Inside-Front.jpg
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I recently bought a new wetsuit, but not for tropical waters. I went online because the local shops only stock back-zip, and I wanted a farmer john and jacket. I don't regret my choice.
 
For tropical I go custom shorty. Quick and Easy to don and doff as the legs stop above the knees and the arms stop before the elbows. Takes about 20 seconds. No need for lube.

Builtin back pad down the spine. Front zipper with a flap and a zelcrow keeper.

The dirty secret is that it is a 7mm shorty. I can stay warm with 5 dives a day even in t&c in January.
 
I probably could have used a shorty in my younger days but my cold tolerance is much lower now. Besides, I burn like a lobster so need the sun protection.

Sun protection? I find about 30 feet of salt water solves that problem.
 
I worked as a diver in warm water and found I could still get cold. The water temperatures are in the 70's but if my activities didn't keep me moving all the time I would start to get cold after about a half hour. I used my shorty when I was diving for fun or spearfishing and my full length wetsuit when working. I worked with people that used no wetsuit at all on their dives and couldn't understand why they weren't cold.

Adventure-Ocean
 
I'm late to the party as usual.

Akimbo, there's some great stuff in your post. If you pick up my post, I'd appreciate some add'l details.

I know you've used both Oceanos and Aquaflite. I'm guessing the jacket in the attached photos came from Oceanos. I'm wondering why you would use Oceanos given the fact that Aquaflite is not so far from Mendocino. I noticed that Oceanos uses Heiwa Neoprene - could it be that you prefer the neoprene used by Oceanos? Is the Oceanos neoprene less compressive than that used by Aquaflite?

I like the idea of a zipper-less jacket. I don't have trouble with zippers per se, but if I use a thicker wetsuit (5 mil) - when I bend forward the suit pulls away from the back of my neck and I get a blast of cool water. Eliminating the zipper might solve this. Yes, a hooded vest can solve the problem, but there are things I don't like about hooded vests.


Anyway, I have questions about the modified jacket…

  • You said you had it modified so that there is nylon on the inside - how was that accomplished? Was that done to the jacket 'after' you took these photos? Did someone simply glue nylon into the interior? I don't see anything to indicate that something was stitched into the lower part of the torso.
  • If you had known it was going to go this way, would you have instead ordered free dive style pants that allow you to turn down the torso so that you have a smooth skin section from the pants interacting with the smooth skin section from the jacket? Or, a farmer john with smooth skin on the outside of the upper part of the pants?
  • ​In the neck of the jacket, do you have a little length of velcro - so you can loosen the neck while doning / doffing and then snug it up for the dive. I'm guessing that without such an addition, the neck will eventually stretch out and allow water to flow in.

thanks
 
... I'm wondering why you would use Oceanos given the fact that Aquaflite is not so far from Mendocino…

Oceanos offers the split-cell material (often but incorrectly called open-cell) and Aquaflite doesn’t, at least when this suit was built. Oceanos is also very competitively priced and I didn’t plan on using this suit a great deal.

... Is the Oceanos neoprene less compressive than that used by Aquaflite? …

I don’t have the data but it may well be worse… but I didn’t really care on a 3mm. Unfortunately, all the Neoprene blends on the market compress way too much. Rubatex G231n was probably the least compressible material but they are out of business now and I don’t believe there is a replacement.

... I like the idea of a zipper-less jacket. I don't have trouble with zippers per se, but if I use a thicker wetsuit (5 mil) - when I bend forward the suit pulls away from the back of my neck and I get a blast of cool water. Eliminating the zipper might solve this. Yes, a hooded vest can solve the problem, but there are things I don't like about hooded vests. …

My Aquaflite is a 7mm two piece farmer, Titnium (no Nylon) interior, and no-zip jacket without hood. I also have an Oceanos with the same specs except attached hood and spit cell interior. It is much easier to don both suits than a zippered jacket with interior Nylon as long as you use a spray suit lube (diluted liquid soap or hair conditioner).

As for water running down your back, a neck seal or attached hood will fix that. I also add a spine pad to the farmer because I have a serious concave at the spine. You can glue one in yourself, probably better than the factory. Let me know if you are interested and I will post some tricks.

Spine Pad.jpg

... Anyway, I have questions about the modified jacket…

  • You said you had it modified so that there is nylon on the inside - how was that accomplished? Was that done to the jacket 'after' you took these photos? Did someone simply glue nylon into the interior? I don't see anything to indicate that something was stitched into the lower part of the torso.

Nylon against split cell has very high surface friction. You would have to put about 5x as much suit lube on the area to get it to slide against the farmer. Note that the Farmer has Nylon outside and the jacket is split cell on the inside where they rub. Nylon against Nylon lining slides pretty well.

I just marked the original jacket (which had split cell inside and Nylon outside) with a gray ink Sharpie. I sent it to Cricket at Otter Bay Wetsuits who cut it off and used it as a pattern for the replacement Nylon-2 material. It was butt-glued and blind-stitched outside.

Does this make sense?

...
  • If you had known it was going to go this way, would you have instead ordered free dive style pants that allow you to turn down the torso so that you have a smooth skin section from the pants interacting with the smooth skin section from the jacket? Or, a farmer john with smooth skin on the outside of the upper part of the pants?

I have always had the high-top pants slide down and get baggy in the crotch on me compared to the farmer. Plus the farmer puts more thickness on the torso where it doesn’t hinder movement noticeably but provides more insulation.

I tried to get Spiros at Oceanos to make the suit that way but his patterns weren’t set up for it and I probably didn’t explain it very well over E-mail.

...
  • In the neck of the jacket, do you have a little length of velcro - so you can loosen the neck while doning / doffing and then snug it up for the dive. I'm guessing that without such an addition, the neck will eventually stretch out and allow water to flow in.

I hate Velcro on diving gear. The hook side stick to everything, fills with debris, and wears out. I just spray a little extra suit lube in the neck area and try to remember to wet my hair before donning.

I have used a neck dam on every wetsuit I have had since the 1970s and never had it stretch out before the rest of the suit was worn out anyway. I am no body builder so my neck is much smaller than my fat head!

There are a number of keys to prevent water circulation and pumping. First is a great fit, which you should get out of a well-made custom suit. The second is to fill any concave spaces on your body with material… like at the spine.

Hope this helps.
 
Akimbo...

Great stuff. Thanks for all the details. And yes, it all makes sense.
 

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