Trim is the Platform, Buoyancy the Heart and Propulsion the Art.

[MichaelMc]

Responding to a call for a worthy discussion, by @tbone1004 in the passing-time thread, and stealing @Ripley 's sig as the title because it stood out.

Assuming you see them as important,
- How do you blend or build through those three?
- What are the subtle points of them?

If you don't think they are important or want to defend their importance, that is not this thread. Lots of discussion elsewhere on some not/are important or useful.
(See at least through post 13 for more attempts at explaining the thread purpose.)

This is the advanced forum, 'beyond basic but not technical', so teaching new students is not a worry, nor are stages etc. I googled the sig, no hits, so I'm assuming it is not any agencies motto, though a few 'lean' that way. Hoping for no agency fights or chest thumping.
(No tech here so no add/remove stage worries. Advanced forum: 'not yet tech'.)

The title (Ripley's sig) is a nice description to me. Some of my thoughts:
Trim:
- Definitely core to me. Just something to get set.

Buoyancy:
- Timing if I worry about breathing cycle based up and down, or not.
- Not shifting it when there is no visual reference (using the water specks)?
- Not winding up high in your lung volume, then realizing you have no more range to move up a few feet, until you fix that, or tilt and kick (fine for OW).

Propulsion:
- Moving but also deciding where to be?
- Floating with surge or countering it a little or a lot?
- Instinctively doing reverse and turns when needed?
- I assume mostly frog, plus flutter for speed/power if needed.

(Edited for hopefully better clarity)

 

[Ouvea]

What exactly are you asking? Is one more important than the other? It's more the case that one has an effect on the other.

If you're not in trim and swim at 30 degrees then you have greater frontal resistance. Hence you're not moving as far as you can for each kick. Also, with fins pointed downward, you're likely to silt up the bottom. If you can't maintain your position in the water column, you're going to breathe or use your BCD excessively. That means you're not fully relaxed and will naturally breathe at a higher rate, vs a diver that is perfectly still and that does not move in the water column.

There is more to propulsion. Do you have the proper technique for the type of kick you're doing (flutter, frog, helicopter, reverse, scisor, etc..). You should only move when you mean displace yourself from your current position. Otherwise, you should remain absolutely motionless without sculling your hands or you fins.

 

[MichaelMc]

What exactly are you asking? Is one more important than the other? It's more the case that one has an effect on the other.

Sorry, I might not have been clear.

Things that are off topic:
- The swimming at 30 degrees is the 'are these even important discussion' or the 'explaining why just the basics of them is important and make life easier'. That is an assumption of the thread.
- IF you disagree that they are important, take that some where else. Create a 'Focus on Trim/Buoyancy/Propulsion is all wrong' thread.
- If you feel the need to re-explain that they are important, recreate the 'Trim/Buoyancy/Propulsion are important' threads.
- Whether they are important is NOT a topic of this thread. That is off topic. Feel free to call it out as such to the mods. By paragraph if other parts are useful. (Sorry mods. Maybe throw any in their own thread.)
- Breaking it down by levels:
-- A) Are they important is a basic discussion. (basic forum). Not this thread.
-- B) This is an advanced discussion of them. Assuming A but not dealing with C. Yes this thread.
-- C) But if you have stages etc..., is a tech discussion (tech forum). Not this thread.

Ouvea, I'm not saying you deny their importance. You do not. But I take the importance as an assumption, which is what you are explaining in your second paragraph, and which will devolve into others debating that, which has been beat to death.

Taking a bit more advanced discussion, once we are past 'are they even important and make life easier':
How do you work at each or all?

(Edited for hopefully better clarity)

 

[MichaelMc]

So Ouvea,

From the 'they are important' perspective, what do you think of the title/quote? Do you think calling them platform/heart/art labels them properly? How do you refine each of them?

How much there is to each is a good point.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

Perfect buoyancy is zen.

 

[MichaelMc]

Perfect buoyancy is zen.

Can you say more?
(or is zen silence complete, )

 

[Ouvea]

I don't believe any one is heart, art or platform. They are skills divers need to master to achieve proficiency and simply make the diving more enjoyable. Having good trim & good buoyancy provides you a stable "platform." From that stable platform you have complete control of your horizontal and vertical movements. It's an "artform" to have mastered all three of them.

For buoyancy, I tell people to watch how the position in the water column changes in regards to their breathing. I have them pay attention to the inertia of the movement when they exhale or inhale. Once they have a sense of that innertia, I have them play around with the amount they exhale or inhale. That gets them to feelt the speed that the momentum develops. Honestly, it's not easy and it's not something that you master in one dive. It's like a light bulb going off when you start getting a sense of it.

In regards to trim, I put myself at zero degree trim. I don't move and I watch what happens. Do I tilt backward or forward. Start thinking why it happens and how how to fix it. I have rarely found that repositioning a tank lower/higher has much of an effect. Redistributing the weights that I carry, at least for me, I have found to be more effective. In warm water, with a 3mm wetsuit, keeping from tilting backward with heavy Scubapro jet fins is challenging. So the equipment you use can affect this.

Most tend to rush their kicks, when they need to do the exact opposite. Focus on achieving good forum, the efficiency flows from your good form not from the frequency of the kicks.

Usually the term zen refers to a complete lack of motion underwater, where a diver is in good horizontal position and stable in the water column, without twiching a single muscle. You're usually extremely relaxed in that state and your breathing slows down to a crawl.

 

[MichaelMc]

Ouvea, Thanks.

I think of hanging in the water (horizontal, stable, effortless, relaxed). Just there. Zen is a good term.

What is more challenging is having that without physical references. Shifting to the specks in the water or the feel. Using specks is fine. But is not a background level task for me and I just do not switch to it unless I think about it. Feel is a bit harder in a cold water suit, though lightness or heaviness is there. I also don't always mentally switch to using a reverse kick when needed. I've got all those parts, just seamlessly going in and out of each is where I'm not there yet. They are pieces, not a flow that covers all of them.

 

[MichaelMc]

For buoyancy, I tell people to watch how the position in the water column changes in regards to their breathing. I have them pay attention to the inertia of the movement when they exhale or inhale. Once they have a sense of that innertia, I have them play around with the amount they exhale or inhale. That gets them to feelt the speed that the momentum develops. Honestly, it's not easy and it's not something that you master in one dive. It's like a light bulb going off when you start getting a sense of it.

On the breath/depth cycle, I have to spend some more time on that. My breath definitely naturally pauses after the exhale. I think I limit the depth change by a fairly short inhale exhale, sink back down after the 'full' exhale, then use a little pre inhale to hold depth. I have to play in a pool on that or observe more what I do. I can hold tight depth, but it is not as natural, or seemingly as efficient, a breathing rhythm as if I let depth fluctuate more with a slower inhale exhale then short pause. If I'm exercising, depth definitely oscillates more.

And it's not about me, I'm more interested in peoples general thoughts as above, but the details of the breathing rhythm and which point you're actually neutral at is interesting.

 

[RainPilot]

I like what Roger has to say about trim, this is a very cogent argument for trim's importance.

https://www.xoc-ha.com/post/just-a-trim

Edit: discovered that Roger is in fact our very own @oya