Thoughts on Advanced Open Water / Advanced Adventure

[Jake 10]

agree !., is just a title. The words "Advance" or "Master" are for lack of better words; - over-rated "imho" !

 

[TMHeimer]

agree !., is just a title. The words "Advance" or "Master" are for lack of better words; - over-rated "imho" !

Exactly. Dive Leader doesn't work because Divemasters also assist with courses. Unless you're just a dive leader, in which case you could do that with only one dive under your belt.
Asst. Instructors rank above Divemasters but just have a less interesting title.
Then there is the old "What does it mean to Master something" thread.

 

[Wibble]

Isn’t a person who’s assisting on a course either an Assistant Instructor or a Dive Leader acting as a safety diver?

From PADI site, no mastery required:

• Supervising dive activities and assisting with student divers
• Diver safety and risk management

 

[TMHeimer]

Isn’t a person who’s assisting on a course either an Assistant Instructor or a Dive Leader acting as a safety diver?

From PADI site, no mastery required:

• Supervising dive activities and assisting with student divers
• Diver safety and risk management

I've never heard the terms "Dive Leader" or "safety diver" referred to in any PADI literature.
Certified Assistants on courses may be-- Divemasters, Assistant Instructors, or other Instructors (or higher) acting as assistants.

 

[Wibble]

Apologies, am going off on a pet peeve tangent here: my issue is with the term "Master".

The skills and limited experience are those of a recreational dive leader, not those of a true master of scuba diving.

For example, could one compare the DM in-water skills to that of those required for GUE Fundamentals?

The entry qualifications, 40 dives with Rescue Diver, means someone with no experience of diving (only doing courses) can start the training. Certainly no wide-ranging experience of different diving conditions and circumstances are required.

 

[TMHeimer]

Apologies, am going off on a pet peeve tangent here: my issue is with the term "Master".

The skills and limited experience are those of a recreational dive leader, not those of a true master of scuba diving.

For example, could one compare the DM in-water skills to that of those required for GUE Fundamentals?

The entry qualifications, 40 dives with Rescue Diver, means someone with no experience of diving (only doing courses) can start the training. Certainly no wide-ranging experience of different diving conditions and circumstances are required.

I see what you're saying. But this gets into an awfully philosophical area.
What then IS a true master of scuba diving?
With a Masters degree and 56 years playing clarinet am I a true "master"? I've been a soloist often and played with some pretty impressive groups. But never in a major symphony, where the truly top players are.

Wide ranging scuba experience IMHO doesn't necessarily mean a truly Master. An Instructor with 1,000 dives locally in rough cold water vs. someone with 100 in various conditions on 3 continents.... who wins? Apple & oranges, but I know which one I want to take a local course from.
One example is myself assisting 4 years here on OW courses. My lack of drift, wall or night diving just didn't play into it.

So we really agree about the vagueness of Master, a pet peeve of mine as well.

 

[Ayisha]

For example, could one compare the DM in-water skills to that of those required for GUE Fundamentals?

Um, no, not even on paper let alone in practice.