Those are DIR! you've got to be kidding.....

[Dtaine]

Ok, so I am actually saving a bunch of questions for my Fundies instructor. Don't worry, he's teaching my research diving course too so I'll get most of them out before the GUE class begins .

Anyway, I've been re-reading Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving because you never really get everything the first time through (or the 2nd, really, but after that it's just re-reading particular sections) and I came across something that was rather surprising, at least to me; apparently y-valves and h-valves are DIR, with a catch, and this might get some of you to dust off the cover of Jablonski's book (dusting it off is a joke, don't take offense). Apparently they're to be used when diving "in deeper areas or in overhead environments" with a single tank.

Now I tried to this, but I couldn't really find anything. I thought diving in overheads was supposed to be off-limits for single tank divers? It's also confusing as to what one should consider deep-enough to warrant a y or h valve, but not deep enough to warrant doubles.

I did a double take when I caught this, it's on page 94 of the 2006 paperback version if anyone wants to check. I'm not going to be using either of these types of valves, doubles is a more logical approach for the dives I want to do anyway, but I was wondering if my surprise is warranted or if there's a more logical reasoning behind it, and perhaps there's some sense in those valves being a part of a DIR system?

I figured the only way those valves could ever be DIR would be in extreme cold where a first stage could easily freeze, but the only mentioning I see is for deep and/or overhead diving which I figured was just purely off limits for those who haven't moved up to doubles.

 

[Sloth]

Well the book is for recreational students so I read that part to say if you are diving deep (in recreational terms) or in an overhead environment (in recreational terms) then it behooves you to have backup 1st stages.

Overhead environment doesn't automatically translate into technical diving. Recreational wreck and cavern classes are two obvious examples. Just like someone in doubles doesn't mean technical diver

Everyone in my fundies class was in doubles so I dont know how common it is to do fundies in a single but obviously if you are going for a tech pass or if you are thinking about tech classes in the future then go with doubles.

 

[Dtaine]

Well the book is for recreational students so I read that part to say if you are diving deep (in recreational terms) or in an overhead environment (in recreational terms) then it behooves you to have backup 1st stages.

Overhead environment doesn't automatically translate into technical diving. Recreational wreck and cavern classes are two obvious examples. Just like someone in doubles doesn't mean technical diver

True, I hadn't really thought about wrecks, that's a good place where it would make a lot of sense. So is it really up to the team as to when it's deep enough to require y or h valves, depending on conditions and dive variables? Or is it more of a set thing such as on dives deeper than 100?

Everyone in my fundies class was in doubles so I dont know how common it is to do fundies in a single but obviously if you are going for a tech pass or if you are thinking about tech classes in the future then go with doubles.

If I was to take the class today I'd be in a single, although it is possible I might have a doubles setup by the time I do take Fundies. It'll depend on how things work out, but it's nice that a rec pass can always be updated later if need be.

 

[Vie]

I came across something that was rather surprising, at least to me; apparently y-valves and h-valves are DIR, with a catch, and this might get some of you to dust off the cover of Jablonski's book (dusting it off is a joke, don't take offense). Apparently they're to be used when diving "in deeper areas or in overhead environments" with a single tank.

You'll even find a photo of JJ using a Y-valve in the book... The book is old, 'DIR" has evolved...

The use of H-valves or Y-valves is no longer being taught or recommended by GUE (not sure if it ever was?) for any diving situation.

 

[Sloth]

True, I hadn't really thought about wrecks, that's a good place where it would make a lot of sense. So is it really up to the team as to when it's deep enough to require y or h valves, depending on conditions and dive variables? Or is it more of a set thing such as on dives deeper than 100?

Good question for your fundies instructor This question never really had relevance for me but if you are going to stick with singles on deep dives or for easy wreck penetration then you might want to ask for some recommendations.

Personally, for me I don't really feel comfortable doing dives below 80' without a backup first stage and I absolutely will not do any overhead diving on a single. I rarely dive singles any more, usually only for shore dives to do some photography in shallow water or when I go diving at the spur of the moment and don't have time to plan for doubles.

 

[Sloth]

You'll even find a photo of JJ using a Y-valve in the book... The book is old, 'DIR" has evolved...

The use of H-valves or Y-valves is no longer being taught or recommended by GUE (not sure if it ever was?) for any diving situation.

It's still listed as an option outside of doubles on the GUE website. But come to think of it Ive never heard of anyone doing a fundies class in a single.

 

[Dtaine]

Good question for your fundies instructor This question never really had relevance for me but if you are going to stick with singles on deep dives or for easy wreck penetration then you might want to ask for some recommendations.

I'll be sure to ask, that could be a very interesting conversation.

Personally, for me I don't really feel comfortable doing dives below 80' without a backup first stage and I absolutely will not do any overhead diving on a single. I rarely dive singles any more, usually only for shore dives to do some photography in shallow water or when I go diving at the spur of the moment and don't have time to plan for doubles.

I don't think I'll be doing any overhead diving on a single tank either, just sounds like a bad idea to begin with. Any rec depth I'm okay with so long as my rig is balanced, I have a good buddy, and I'm not diving air deeper than 70 or 80 (I'd like to avoid narcosis as much as possible frankly).

It's still listed as an option outside of doubles on the GUE website. But come to think of it Ive never heard of anyone doing a fundies class in a single.

I can't imagine there are very many who've done it.

 

[Vie]

It's still listed as an option outside of doubles on the GUE website.

That's the funny thing about GUE. They don't bother updating info on the website as much as they should (the old 1:6 student to instructor ratio for Fundies is still listed, as another example). GUE may list Y or H-valve as an option but I don't think any GUE instructor will let you dive a single tank with a Y or H-valve in a GUE class now.

But come to think of it Ive never heard of anyone doing a fundies class in a single.

I (and quite a few people I dive with) did my Fundies in a single config (no Y or H-valve) with one first stage.

 

[ppo2_diver]

I've seen people take the GUEF class in single tanks, even had H valves. The instructor recommended eBay'ing them for standard K valves. DIR does evolve even though GUE doesn't update the web site that much.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Anyway, I've been re-reading Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving because you never really get everything the first time through (or the 2nd, really, but after that it's just re-reading particular sections) and I came across something that was rather surprising, at least to me; apparently y-valves and h-valves are DIR, with a catch, and this might get some of you to dust off the cover of Jablonski's book (dusting it off is a joke, don't take offense). Apparently they're to be used when diving "in deeper areas or in overhead environments" with a single tank.

Now I tried to this, but I couldn't really find anything. I thought diving in overheads was supposed to be off-limits for single tank divers? It's also confusing as to what one should consider deep-enough to warrant a y or h valve, but not deep enough to warrant doubles.

I did a double take when I caught this, it's on page 94 of the 2006 paperback version if anyone wants to check. I'm not going to be using either of these types of valves, doubles is a more logical approach for the dives I want to do anyway, but I was wondering if my surprise is warranted or if there's a more logical reasoning behind it, and perhaps there's some sense in those valves being a part of a DIR system?

I figured the only way those valves could ever be DIR would be in extreme cold where a first stage could easily freeze, but the only mentioning I see is for deep and/or overhead diving which I figured was just purely off limits for those who haven't moved up to doubles.

That's a good question to ask your Fundies instructor ... GUE has been evolving its gear requirements since I first heard about it in 2001. They don't always update their class materials or website accordingly, but the instructors can use questions like that to help you understand not only why they made the original choices, but why they changed it over time.

DIR is more about understanding "why" than it is about gear choices.

It's still listed as an option outside of doubles on the GUE website. But come to think of it Ive never heard of anyone doing a fundies class in a single.

I can't imagine there are very many who've done it.

More than you'd think. Before GUE split the pass criteria into Rec and Tech passes, I think the majority of Fundies students were in singles rigs ... at least out here on the west coast. Now those who know they want to pursue tech training tend to go to doubles a bit quicker than before ... I don't think that's always a good thing. Building a solid skills foundation is far more important than building a good gear configuration, and some people struggle in their Fundies class because they switched to doubles sooner than perhaps they should have.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)