Thank heavens for PADI

[Ron Brandt]

Lawman once bubbled...

Without PADI and it's marketing/promotion there wouldn't be any dive industry.It's the scuba Walmart

Did'nt I mention something about scuba and department stores on another thread?

My original cerifications were NAUI and ACUC. ACUC instructors are like the Y in that they can develop their own program to meet their needs and I do like that.

I became a PADI instructor strictly for the marketability.

Personally , I would like a little more flexability in teaching without fear of a QA for exceeding standards.

Ron

 

[GQMedic]

thought for myself.

Looked at the pros and cons, and then exclaimed, THANK GOD FOR NAUI!


Yeah, I know, I'm such a troll...

*Sung to the tune of Proud Mary*

"Trollin', Trollin', trollin' on the scuba-board..."

 

[-hh]

Whirling Girl once bubbled...
Mike, isn't there something about teaching stuff outside of or beyond the PADI requirements creating potential liability, or something like that?

There's a grain of truth in that, but the bigger concern can be more accurately summarized as "...potential liability of reduced revenue streams through loss of AOW and similar certifications..."

I'm completely on thin ice here. This isn't the first time I've heard people say that PADI instructors are not permitted to teach extra stuff in their OW courses, but maybe that's like an urban legend.

Clarity would be good.

There's a fine line that's being walked. What it essentially is is that PADI instructors cannot, at their own personal discretion, add requirements that they say must be met before they're willing to issue an OW certification. The other Agencies don't have this same restriction.

In the example of NAUI, they have a final criteria that's applied after all coursework, which is the "Would I let a loved one dive with this person?" criteria. If the Instructor has any doubts for any reason, he can choose not to issue a certification, even if the student has gotten a 100% on all of his exams and tests. The typical hypothetical example of where this might happen is for a student who does everything right in class but nevertheless displays an "unsafe attitude".

I've heard friends who are SSI instructors talk about differences between PADI and SSI which include their ability to write their own curriculum for SSI and get it approved, but not being able to do that with PADI. So for example, 5thD teaches openwater through SSI, but it also includes DIR stuff, because they were allowed to basically create their own course.

What will probably be said next is that PADI instructors are also allowed to do this. That's how we get Specialties like PADI UW Basketweaving and the like, but I'm not familiar with anyone actually getting a customized OW course through - - and I'd bet that the official policy would probably fall back to that clause we saw earlier that allowed "local environment tailoring", and thus, effectively keep it "under the table".

-hh

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Walter once bubbled...
Stephen,

If you felt calling you clever was disrespectful, I'm sorry, that was not my intention.

I hate it when people accuse me of being clever. And when they tell me how handsome I am I just wanna puke.

You need a new stick, Walter. This insult, then offer a disingenuous apology - thing has become too repetitive and...well...a bit boring. Do you just cut and paste this stuff?

Walter once bubbled...

I understood your point from the outset...

Close, but no cigar!

Walter once bubbled...
If someone doesn't have the brains to recognize when they are going too far, they don't have the brains to teach diving. I'd rather eliminate those folks from my instructor base than to write standards to keep them in check.

That’s a great way to QA an agency…Hmm…Walter will decide who should or should not teach, what can and can’t be added, what is appropriate and what isn’t. Scuba diving according to Walter will be the new industry standard. I feel safe knowing that you’ll be there to support me if I end up in court.

I thought you were all about better standards. If you believe that it is acceptable for any instructor to add anything that he or she wants (within reason…uh..I mean… within your reason) then do you think that it is OK to leave out anything that an instructor might think is not needed? Why even have standards when we can just depend on the instructor to have the brains to know what should or shouldn’t be taught.

Actually, I don’t entirely disagree with you here and I have to admit that I add some things to my PADI courses that aren’t listed in bold print as standards. We work on these just as much as the bold print “requirements” and all of my students learn and master these additions. No one has ever said that they didn’t want to learn such and such or demanded their cert because they had completed the minimum that PADI requires.

Walter once bubbled...

No axe to grind. PADI didn't work me over....

Riiiight! We all love gettin' pulled into legal crapola. Bet it was almost as fun as a trip to Fiji! You should have the PADI lawyers over for dinner to thank them for such a great time.

Walter once bubbled...

Yes, I'm aware you and others consider any negative comments about PADI to be PADI bashing...

You're a PADI basher by your own definition. You simply fail to see that many of your accusations are misleading and unfair and some, simply untrue. It’s too bad, really. There is much about the PADI program that needs improving.

But hold up a minute there big fella…who says I have to play by your rules? You can use any definition of bashing that you want…but don’t tell me how to define it and don't presume that your definition is more legitimate than mine.

Actually, I have never told you what I think bashing is so don't assume that you can speak for me. As it happens I have several definitions of PADI bashing and the one I choose to use right now is; any post concerning PADI authored by Walter.


SA

 

[Walter]

Stephen,

What happened to make you so bitter? I hope life gets better for you. Of course, you'll probably assume that was "disingenuous", but I'm beyond caring what you think.

I don't make "disingenuous" apologies. I did not intend for you to be insulted, but frankly, I no longer care if you are insulted or not. I don't care what definitions you use, but I do think your new definition will certainly make it easier for you to decide when I'm bashing PADI. You are humorous when you are at your most miserable.

I would have preferred a trip to Fiji, but that wasn't one of the options. Watching PADI's attorney squirm certainly doesn't rank up there with diving, but diving wasn't an option that day either. I always try to enjoy myself which is probably why I find your weak attempts to be insulting so laughable.

Enjoy grinding your axe.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Mike,

Your being a little generous with the four 20 minute dives. I've seen the first dive where no skills are done that last all of four minutes. No, I'm not kidding.

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

For those who want something faster, there are plenty of classes that only spend 5 or six hours in the pool and just enough class time to take the quizes and tests and finish up with 4, 20 minute dives. These are the ones though that I'm trying to warn people about.

 

[Dan Gibson]

So that is how one gets their count up. What the heck happened here with the posts?

 

[detroit diver]

Dan Gibson once bubbled...
So that is how one gets their count up. What the heck happened here with the posts?

I thought you were just trying to make a point!!

 

[saying]

I got an SDI card yesterday and I'm thrilled.

Not because of better training, higher standards, etc. etc.

I'm happy because my cert number is only 6 digits.

(though I do think the SDI training standards were a little higher than those from the PADI shops around here)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dan Gibson once bubbled...
Mike,

Your being a little generous with the four 20 minute dives. I've seen the first dive where no skills are done that last all of four minutes. No, I'm not kidding.

I've seen that also but of course that's a violation of standards.