Tech and Ice Diving - Scubapro, Poseidon, Hog, Apeks?

[black_sea]

Dear all, I have been reading the regulator segment of scubaboard for some time now.
I am an instructor that will now dedicate more of my time to cold - 4 degree celcius and below - and deep - 30 to 100 meters range - archeological dives.
This season, I have done about 300 dives in 4c water with Poseidon Xtreme and about 100 dives with Scubapro a700 / mk25.

I have had no freeflows on the Poseidons, though they do regularly spit ice. I would make the Poseidon my regulator of choice if it was not the problem of finicky and expensive service.

The brand new Scubapro a700 has freeflowed on 3 occasions, on third and fourth dives of the day.
My Scubapro mk17 with the r380 freeflowed on the first cold water dive I tried with it. Scubapro mk 25 with s600 has freeflowed on several occasions as well.

I would really rather avoid freeflows as much as possible.
My dream regulator -

• ice diving
• not prone to freeflows
• compatible with tech diving
• possible to self-service / get parts

So now my question is, to those with experience in cold and deep dives
1)Scubapro users, would you recommend I try the scubapro G250 v with my mk17 Scubapro first stage? Do you think it is less prone to freeflows than the a700/mk25?
2)Apeks users with tech/deep/cold experience, any freeflows? Seems to be easy enough to self-service?
3)Should I go for the HOGs due to the availability of the kits? Anyone have actual cold and deep dives on them?
4)No experience with Aqualung glacia, anyone ?

So far I am not sure if I should just give up on Scubapro alltogether. Poseidon would be a no-brainer if they were easier and cheaper to serve and to get parts for.

I have been reading all the past threads on the topic but have as of yet not been able to reach a definite conclusion. Any input from experienced users would be much appreciated!

 

[ScubaGypsy]

I too am curious to the responses that you receive. I have been doing ice diving and cold water cave dives in 36 F (2 C) during this past year and have been experiencing free flowing with my doubles using ScubaPro S600 and G-250V second stages with respective Mk-25 first stages. The free flows seem to occur about 20 mins into my dives. After the ice dive free flows last winter, I had both sets of regulators reserviced with the AF (anitfreeze) kits but alas, I still had the free flows.

My dive buddy has been using Mk-17 first stages and has not had any free flow issues. Although I prefer the hose routing of the Mk-25s, I have just recently purchased two Mk-17s to use in cold water.

My understanding is that ScubaPro is selling a Mk-19 first stage in Europe only. The Mk-19 has the same hose routing of the Mk-25 but they are environmentally sealed like the Mk-17. This might be a worthwhile option for you to look into.

 

[CuNanoTube]

I dive a Mk.17 / A700, it has served me well on 40+ cold water dives, with 2 under the ice. I have never had a free flow that was not my fault (breathing into the reg above the ice once). I have heard posidins are the best, but for price and service I am sticking to my Mk.17 / A700. From a physics point of view the A700 is the most logical second for cold water as the metal body conducts heat to the valve better. The Mk.17 is sealed (the mk.25 is not, probably why you free-flowed with it), so a sealed Mk.17 with a heat conducting full metal second you should be good to go.

 

[black_sea]

I must be the proponent of the AK-47 school of engineering thought -being able to do things "you should not do" should be part of the design... I would certainly expect being able to breathe into the regulator on the surface.
Poseidons can handle it no problem! I dived one of them in 4c water dripping wet from the dive bag that was left overnight, after some heavy breathing on the surface.

ScubaGypsy, your feedback on the G250 is invaluable... guess I will have to hold off getting that one to try it out.
Like you said, it seems that the problems start once you have gotten the reg into the water and some time has passed.
And I have certainly noticed that Scubapro problems get worse as you do more dives during the day.
Hashime, I am going to try the a700 with the mk17...Thank you for your feedback!
So far the dive operators here in Iceland have said that they saw ALL regulators freeflow, from Aqualung to Apeks, excluding Poseidon, but the service expenses of poseidon are a minus for them... and me.

 

[tadawson]

Dear all, I have been reading the regulator segment of scubaboard for some time now.
I am an instructor that will now dedicate more of my time to cold - 4 degree celcius and below - and deep - 30 to 100 meters range - archeological dives.
This season, I have done about 300 dives in 4c water with Poseidon Xtreme and about 100 dives with Scubapro a700 / mk25.

I have had no freeflows on the Poseidons, though they do regularly spit ice. I would make the Poseidon my regulator of choice if it was not the problem of finicky and expensive service.
.
.
.

I note your location, and that may have a lot to do with it, but for most of us, Poseidon service costs the same amount, and is often simpler than other brands. . . .Myself, I dive Poseidon, and started for cold water reasons myself, and have never had any reason (service or otherwise) to change, and that was from 32 years ago . . .

But as I said, I'm not in Iceland, so your experience may well differ in that regard. I am not aware of any reg that has tested better in ice than a Poseidon though, and that is based on tests by the US Navy . . .

- Tim

 

[ScubaGypsy]

ScubaGypsy, your feedback on the G250 is invaluable... guess I will have to hold off getting that one to try it out..

Actually I don't think the free flow issues had anything to do with either of the second stages (SP S600 and G250V). I believe that the issues are with the Mk-25 first stages. On my last occurance, I was ~ 120' deep and 300' into the cave when my primary (S600) began free flowing. I turned off my manifold post and switched to my back-up regulator (G250V). I was able to exit the cave but during my safety stops, the G250V began to freeflow. I then turned my primary (S600) back on and it did not free flow. I obviously next turned the back-up off (G250V) and completed the stops, ascent and exit on the primary (S600) without any additional issues except frustration. The first stages for both the primary and back-up were Mk-25s.

 

[cerich]

Tell you what, i want to see how my reg does for you up there in Iceland. I'll send you one to test over the winter if you promise to tell me how it does. (in detail I'm afraid)

 

[black_sea]

ScubaGypsy - I am at a loss... I have experienced freeflow with mk17, which is a membrane/sealed first stage, with a 380 second stage. So It must be the combination of first stage and second stage problems.

To service a poseidon regulator in Sweden is around 120-200 USD! Sometimes even more in Iceland. And if you ship it for service abroad, prepare to face drakonian customs. It is average in Sweden and Iceland to pay the minimum of $100 for regulator service, if you buy in bulk.

cerich - the diving season in Iceland is entering the low season. I am going to Sweden for the winter in early October. I will be doing ice dives, regular open water courses in 2 to 4c water, and some archeological work at 20 to 30 meters deep, below the ice. If that sounds interesting, I would love to test your regulators in Sweden. The active diving season in Iceland would start next June, so if it is the Icelandic stamp of approval you are after, we would have to do it next year.

 

[cerich]

pm me your address, what you describe will still be a great cold water endurance test

 

[Jim Lapenta]

My HOG regs work fine under the ice. Just look at my avatar.