Tautology vs Pleonasm

[Deefstes]

Anyone care to explain to me what the difference between a tautology and a pleonasm is? I've heard some explanations but I must be an idiot because I'm still confused.

The closest I've come to an understandable explanation is "pleonasm refers to the use of more words than are necessary to convey a particular sense while tautology refers to the saying of the same thing in different words".



Those sound like saying the same thing twice if you ask me. Is this just perhaps a linguistic joke as the description of the difference between tautology and pleonasm is itself a tautology/pleonasm?

Anyways, could some describe it better for me perhaps? In other words, what is the difference between "using more words than are necessary" and "saying the same thing twice"?

 

[reefduffer]

They overlap, but there is a difference. To some degree it's a difference in intent:

A tautology is a statement of something two ways so as to seem to convey meaning or a logical argument, but actually not.
"It's very important for folks to understand that when there's more trade, there's more commerce." - George W. Bush

A pleonasm is more like verbal embellishment than fuzzy thinking. If it was poetry or a song lyric instead of everyday prose we might even find it attractive.
"She's an underwater scuba diver"
[ Read that not as currently submerged, but as talking about someone's hobby ]

Both can be used as rhetorical tools to influence the listener.
"Buy in the next ten minutes and get a free gift".

 

[Deefstes]

Aha, that makes sense. Thanks. I have to be honest though that there are some phrases still which I'm sure is a pleonasm/tautology but, even by this definition I can't quite decide which.

Never mind, I guess this is as good an explanation as I'm likely to get.