Switching from the Sony RX 100 to the GoPro Hero 7 black???

[NowTeelus]

Dear divers and underwater filmers,

I would like to hear your opinions on my following thoughts.
Currently, I deal with the question if I should switch from the Sony RX 100 V to the
GoPro Hero Black 7 - or not.
I guess, many people would tell me that the Sony would win "hands down" this race.
But is it really true? Here are my thoughts and experiences:

Over a period of, roundabout, 3-4 years, I was quite happy with the GoPro Hero 4 Silver.
I filmed just diving videos with it. Nothing else. But I also experienced (at least) two issues
that motivated me to search for an alternative: The tiny, tiny screen and the low light performance
that caused quite often grainy footage, especially when diving around 90ft (or deeper) or during cloudy weather conditions. For 70% of the time, I film bigger stuff in bigger distances, so lamps wouldn't help in those situations (for the other 30% I often use my two lamps).

Many people told me to go the next step and chose a Sony RX 100V that had a 1" image sensor as well a quite big screen. So, I ordered the new equipment. But with the new equipment, new problems came:
With the GoPro, I used the "medium" FOV 90% of the time. For the RX, I needed a wide angle, and
finally I bought an Inon UWL-H100. This lens did an amazing job. But, on the one hand, it was quite
"heavy" and on the other hand, I had to unscrew it on each dive to remove all the bubbles.
So, on every dive I risked to lose this expensive piece of gear.
But - by far - my biggest concern with the RX 100 V is the white balance. On the GoPro, I was quite
happy with ProTune Raw as well the "native" white balance.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I realized that the Sony offered similar settings just for the
photographers but not for the videographers. Yes, this was my mistake that I didn't figured it out before I bought the camera. I can't blame anyone for this, but it still results in problems.
I can't believe, Sony offered a custom white balance for videographers. I know, there exist a complicated workaround (8 single steps and the disregard of one error message) to aply the custom white balance on video, but this is so complicated, that it is ridiculous in my eyes. Experimenting with fixed color temperatures resulted in not so good videos, so I stayed with the underwater white balance. This setting gave me quite good results, but the problem is, that the white balance can shift during a single shot - and so the colors adjust during filming.
The next problem I had with the combination of camera and wide angle lens was, that my lamps didn't light up the entire image anymore, due to the different angle. In combination with the auto white balance, the center of the image looks ok now and the surrounding areas stay green and blue. So, I need to buy two new (expensive) lamps.
To sum up my pro's and con's of the Sony RX 100 V:

Pro's:
- Bigger sensor and therefore better low light performance
- Bigger screen
- Pretty well working image stabilization

Con's:
- Now RAW video
- No custom white balance or "native" setting
- wide angle lens needed (with risk of loosing it during each dive)
- New lamps needed
- Generally: More expensive (wide angle, housing, new lamps)

Compared to the Go Pro 4:

Pro's:

- ProTune RAW
- Native white balance
- Cheap and easy

Con's:

- Low light performance
- Tiny screen
- No image stabilization


But that was the Gro Pro Hero 4 Silver! Now, we're living in the age of the Hero 7 black.
I was pretty impressed by the "hypersmooth" image stabilization. And the screen is also bigger.
The remaining issue would be the low light performance. Is it better than the performance of the
hero 4 silver? And how is it, compared to the Sony?

Now, I have a big descision to make:

- Stay with the Sony, buy two expensive lamps and deal with the other issues (especially the white balance thing)

or

- buy the hero 7 black for a price lower than the two lamps, even with the super suit and a bunch of
batteries


What is your opinition? I would like to hear it.

Thank you very much!!

 

[diversteve]

You are kidding right?

 

[NowTeelus]

So, that's your entire argument, staff member and scubaboard supporter Steve?!?

 

[npole]

If you are the kind of person that loves to point and shoot doing videos with a pole for fun, an action camera will be always better than any camera, including a RED one.
On the other side, if you are an amateur videographer/photographer, the RX100V is on another level.. not by a tick, the difference is so big that you couldn't even make a comparison. It's like going on a forum asking if you want to change your car for a bicycle.
As you may have noticed already, you need much more than "just a settings" to overcome of the issues you're having: the RX100V in fact lacks of the native white balance, that could be corrected in post production or by using a red filter. I use two powerful lights for the videos and strobes for the photos, so I don't have the issue if not for the wide open shots (ysing the wide lens you may have more troubles) that I correct in post-production.
For the wet-lens, there's the flipping adapters, so you can place it in front of the lens without screw/unscrew anything. I use this: 67mm Swing Wet-Lens Mount Flip Adapter For Underwater Camera Housing Case【US】 712962619373 | eBay

Now, there's surely better alternatives underwater, in example the Panasonic LX15 does a better job than the RX100 in my opinion (it's a shame there's no cheapo seafrog housing), but not the action cameras .. those are on a much lower aspect for everything apart the portability.

 

[NowTeelus]

Thanks for your input.

The problem with the Sony underwater auto white balance is, that it may alters during the recording (as any auto white balance can potentially do). The problem is, that the fixed color temperatures resulted in very green footage (I could choose between bad or worse), that couldn't be "repaired" in post-production. And I use a quite good red filter (Magic Filter).

But, please tell me why the LX15 would be the better choice, compared to the RX 100 V.

 

[npole]

You're not filming a non stop video, you do clips, and clips are adjusted individually while mounting the video (not just for the WB). You must be prepared to this and to use a proper software (and PC). It's a job done by enthusiasts, that are the main target of users who opt for a more advanced camera than a action camera. There's no shortcut, and if you don't like doing this, you're pretty screwed and you will never produce quality videos with this kind of camera (hence I was mentioning that the action cameras are better suited for certain divers).

The LX10/15 is better because: it has a brightest lens than the Sony (1.4 at wide open VS 1.8), but especially because it has a incredible accurate wb range at depth, decreased minimum focus distance. It does better those things that aren't perfected on the RX100, with the same sensor and resolution. The only downside, as I said, is that you don't have a cheap option for the housing. With my RX100 I go up to 60 meters with my nice seafrogs housing (189€).

 

[NowTeelus]

I do color correction for years now and I think, I use a suitable software (Vegas Pro since Vegas 13). And yes, I think, I'm an enthusiast. But the problems remain and green/blue footage can stay green/blue, regardless if someone uses Vegas Pro, Premiere Pro, Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve or something other. The reason is, that there isn't any red in the footage that could be ampliefied if it wasn't recorded due to bad white balance. To make something clear: I also can't understand these "I don't want to adjust something on the PC" divers with their shaky and sh*tty go pro pole ("oh look, it's like swimming into the swarm") videos (most of the time of themself) that nobody wants to see. I fight for each picture - underwater and sitting in front of my PC.
That's the reason, I miss a custom white balance on the Sony: I'm not one of these "click and forget" "videographers".

 

[npole]

You said that you didn't liked the fact that the auto setting could alter the white balance during shots, so I replied that you should correct everything (not just the white balance) shot by shot.

I also have a news for you (that I'm sure you know already): while an accurate white balance can (as the name suggest) balances the color components, you cannot magically give a color to something that isn't colored from the start, it's not just a matter of white balance, it's a matter of deep. So even by shooting a picture in RAW (where the white balance is not relevant) without proper lights, you cannot return the colors that aren't there. Certainly you can make the whole image more warm (red), but the red won't magically appear behind 15-18 meters.. because it's gone forever without an artificial light source.

There's custom white balance on the sony, there's also presents (like the Panasonic), but it's not very comfortable to use. Hence I said that the Panasonic is more satisfying camera underwater (remaining in the compacts field of course).

 

[NowTeelus]

"You said that you didn't liked the fact that the auto setting could alter the white balance during shots"

No. I said, during a shot. This happens from time to time with each camera.

"I also have a news for you (that I'm sure you know already)"

So, this can't be any news "for me". Why so rude?

 

[npole]

"You said that you didn't liked the fact that the auto setting could alter the white balance during shots"

No. I said, during a shot. This happens from time to time with each camera.

During a clips so? If you leave it to auto, it can happen... adjust it with the appropriate tools in post-production, or set it to manual.

"I also have a news for you (that I'm sure you know already)"

So, this can't be any news "for me". Why so rude?

Rude? It's a way of speaking. Anyway, it's to point up that if you're at depth with no lights/strobes, there's no white balance, filter or whatever that can give back to you the original colors.

Also, the thread was about the RX100V vs any-action-camera and I believe we have cleared why the comparison doesn't make sense (under the technological aspect).