Swerving and braking; safe driving practices with modern automotive stability systems

[DandyDon]

Point is you can hit somebody/something and not know you have done it.

It's possible, yes, but if you hit them hard enough to kill - improbable.

I encourage my kids to never swerve, brake hard, but never swerve as rollovers start that way. Glad your experience was good.

 

[Jay]

I encourage my kids to never swerve, brake hard, but never swerve as rollovers start that way.

For very old cars this was true, but not now.

All new cars have stability control (aka ESC, SC, and a few other names) as a mandatory feature for at least the last 5 years. Even without this, suspension has advanced so much you can get away with a lot. ABS as you know has been around for donkey years. And braking differential (ABD) is usually part of the package. With ESC, generally speaking (at road speeds,99% of non-commercial vehicles etc) you can swerve as much as you want and you're ok*. With ABS brake as hard as you want. ABD will stop you spinning if you're braking over a mixed surface (asphalt on two wheels and gravel on the other two). On the latter point you ([one] should know if your car has this before you get into this situation else you'll spin like a yoyo at speed.

*if you car barely passed a Moose Test, and you clip a curb (for e.g.) then yes, you'll be shiny side down.

You can out-brake ABS with minimal practise ... it's a bit harder in a non-planned situation of course.

I highly recommend finding a wet empty carpark with no poles, or your local friendly advanced driving school to have some fun and learning how good or bad your car is in getting you out of a mess

 

[DandyDon]

Let's not derail this serious accident discussion, but let me briefly reply. Any further discussion should go to a new thread in Non-diving, but post a link here...

For very old cars this was true, but not now.

"ESC has been mandatory in new cars in Canada, the USA, and the European Union since 2011, 2012, and 2014, respectively." I am happy with my 2007 Impala, and it was optional for that model then, but I checked - got it. They have quit wasting money buying new cars too, but I'll have to look at each one. One is a SUV, one is a Jeep, they borrow a van for family trips, and I think those are all more likely than cars.

With ESC, generally speaking (at road speeds,99% of non-commercial vehicles etc) you can swerve as much as you want and you're ok*.

I'm doubtful on that claim. I have survived two rollovers over the decades, before ESC true, but they were scary. In my memory of recent local news, it seems that most vehicle deaths around here are from rollovers, so they still seem scarier than airbags if they work. It seems that most were riding without seat belts, and that amazes me as the belt warning sound is so irritating, but I think it only sounds for the driver in my car. I do get a light on other seats, and I will not drive with it on. "In 2016, 47 percent of SUV occupants killed in crashes were in vehicles that rolled over. In comparison, 43 percent of deaths in pickups and 22 percent of deaths in cars were in rollovers."

And I have swerved. I'll never forget that pickup that stopped halfway thru a stop sign, right in front of me 10 years ago, but I was traveling under 50 mph with enough road room to do so safely in my instant opinion - so did, in a 1995 pickup. It worked okay, but by the time I turned around to give him harsh words, he'd escaped out of range. Generally, I fear that swerving to miss a car is too dangerous in hiway speeds and won't; besides if it's the other other guys fault, I don't want to be the only one wrecked while he escapes. That's a case by case instant call; I'll take more risks if I feel I goofed.

I'm glad that modern vehicles have ESC as it saves a lot of lives, I know, but I don't trust it as much as you. I trust ABS as that saved me one night in my 95 pickup on the way to dive training when a huge deer stepped out in front of me. I braked hard, prepared for airbag, and couldn't help but close my eyes for an instant so I don't know which way he went to miss me.

 

[Jay]

Yes it's a big claim but ... after you've had a play in a 2 tonne SUV with ESC equipped you'll be sold.

Yes, at highway speeds swerving in a '95 pickup could create some havoc unless you've been practising at catching its tail. But in a modern pickup, trust it ... trust me ...go for it!

Here's a bit of research I dug up:
"When fitted to 4WDs, ESC reduced the risk of rollover crashes by 82%" Follow Up Evaluation of Electronic Stability Control Effectiveness in Australasia (2010)
"ESC was more effective at reducing rollover crashes due to control loss with a reduction of 50.6%. ESC is particularly effective for high center of gravity vehicles such as light trucks, SUVs, and vans." 2019 Has Electronic Stability Control Reduced Rollover Crashes?

These videos are pretty good at showing what it can do with a larger vehicle.
Of course at some point physics takes over, but that's not at road legal speeds in most cases (and it depends if your wheels strike something).

 

[Caveeagle]

The generic term “swerving” is way too simplistic. Being alert and thoughtful, and don’t overreact and possibly cause a worse accident.

I have a relative who has actually been in three single car accidents. In one case she freaked out over a car that honked at her, overacted and flipped her car.

In the mid 90s, a truck swerved to avoid an aluminum ladder while crossing a bridge. This pushed a smaller ford ranger over the bridge side rails, killing two people.

I see people swerve to miss squirrels or possum all the time, when there is no way they had a chance to check theIr blind spots. Honestly, you just as likely to swerve into that squirrel , vs missing it. Just stay the f in your lane and focus on keeping control of your car!