stupid(?) narcosis question

[partridge]

I don't know how stupid of a question this is but here goes.

Narcosis is like you being drunk right?

Will people who get drunk once in a while have a better chance of functioning while being narced? Compared to people who never drink?

I mean, I usually know when I am getting drunk. Some people say that they do not notice that I have had quite a few to drink. This should help me with narcosis right. I will recognize that I have it and maybe even function better when it hits.

Ok. Let me have it.

 

[jagfish]

Don't know about the crossover from alcohol exposure, but I have read that there is some "habituation" that occurs with repeated exposure to narcotic levels of nitrogen.

However, once that individual pauses or stops deep diving for some period of time, this tolerance is lost.

I am sure more informed individuals from the board can provide you with a more complete answer (possibly even from experience) but since you and I are likely the only ones awake at the moment, thought I'd pop in...

JAG

 

[Doppler]

Paul:

I am not sure what branch of logic you're using here but I'm afraid it's flawed.

First of all, inert gas narcosis is not like being drunk. The physiological effects of booze and nitrogen are not similar and the "active" agents do their work differently.

Secondly, the fact you "know" when you are "getting drunk" has no direct bearing on dive planning. These two events are not related.

I would suggest you go back to the drawing board on this one and rethink your position. Perhaps, do some reading... not on internet forums... you will not find the answers you want here.

 

[jagfish]

Paul...

The Encyclopedia of Diving Knowledge has a lengthy section on the effects of Nitrogen...

JAG

 

[jedidiver]

I did my open water in Philippnes,I love your country!...on topic...I dive in Lake Michigan and I never sure if I am narced or not.Been down to 135 feet...I always feel over cautious,holding my air gauge right in front of my face,watch my time like a brothel manager....I never felt drunk,I do believe from reading dive literature...that narcossis affects every diver different...body weight,chemistry,smoker,water temp,depth,fitness......all will play a factor in Narcossis...I don't know if this helps,just something to chew on...Dive Safe!

 

[partridge]

Jagfish: Yeah, I see you are in asia too.

Ok guys. It's just that narcosis is always being compared to being drunk. I'll read up.

or maybe I'll make a write-up to post in the humor section.

 

[sparkyjames]

I don't know how stupid of a question this is but here goes.

Narcosis is like you being drunk right?

Will people who get drunk once in a while have a better chance of functioning while being narced? Compared to people who never drink?

I mean, I usually know when I am getting drunk. Some people say that they do not notice that I have had quite a few to drink. This should help me with narcosis right. I will recognize that I have it and maybe even function better when it hits.

Ok. Let me have it.

While I cannot speak from personal experience, I think you are way off on this theory
Of yours, I do know you will notice the effect of narcoses in your dive buddy before you would notice it in your self.

This is only one of many reasons why the thumbs up sign from a Dive buddy always means to go up. Rather your dive buddy is telling you to go up a little bit or to surface.
It is not asking it is telling you.

By having a suspected victim of narcoses ascend a little way the affect should lesson
Although in some cases, it may be necessary to have the stricken diver move to a much shallower depth. In addition, it may be necessary to end the dive. The point I am trying to make is
A simple do not mess around with this! Divers have been killed from such things.

I know you read all the time about divers working through a bout of narcoses on a deep dive.
However, you must remember these guys are using different gasses and mixes of Breathable gasses.
In order to do so In short, they are trained to plan for this, and are better equipped to deal with it.

This is not something as a recreational diver you will encounter very often. If ever
I have already stated I cannot speak from and experience with dealing with narcoses ether in my self or a dive buddy and I have been diving over 2 years now but I am sure there are those from whom you could expect a more informed response.

the big concern for me and narcoses is by the time I realized I was suffering from narcoses would I have already made a poor judgment that would jeopardize my self or worse my dive buddy?

No to me the risks are too great to even think about messing about.
I strongly advise you to hope you never have to deal with narcoses on a dive then you could enjoy the dive more and with a clear head.

Sparky

 

[vjongene]

I don't know how stupid of a question this is but here goes.

Narcosis is like you being drunk right?

Will people who get drunk once in a while have a better chance of functioning while being narced? Compared to people who never drink?

I mean, I usually know when I am getting drunk. Some people say that they do not notice that I have had quite a few to drink. This should help me with narcosis right. I will recognize that I have it and maybe even function better when it hits.

Ok. Let me have it.

The feelings you get when you are narced are not at all those you get when you are drunk. Doppler made that point already. But with a little practice you CAN detect the onset of narcosis, as people diving deep on air will attest. The taste of the air you are breathing will change in subtle ways (e.g. become slightly "metallic"), you will be more tolerant of the cold (can be dangerous...), you will seek reassurance from reading your instruments, sometimes sounds will be altered (my son swears that he could hear noises from his first stage), etc. etc. As long as you can distance yourself from these effects and stay in control of your dive you will most likely be OK. Your buddy will probably not notice, except maybe that you are looking at your gauges more often than usual, or that you are blinking your eyes in funny ways. S/he will probably be narced too, anyway.

Sometimes, particularly in stressful situations, narcosis can overwhelm you. I remember a couple of dives when I was convinced that I would never see the surface again. Not funny. Then there is indeed only one remedy, which is to SLOWLY ascend to a more comfortable depth. The symptoms WILL go away.

BTW, sparkyjames knows not what he is talking about. Sorry.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Nitrogen acts as an anesthetic at depth and the effect is not the same as alcohol. The two are still often compared however due to the popularity of "Martini's Law" in the 50's 60's and 70' that held that decending 30 feet was like having another martini. It's a little more complex than that.

There are at least 30 possible symptoms of narcosis including lightheadnedness, euphoria, slowed reaction time, reduced fine motor ability, perceptual narrowing (focusing on only one item or task)amnesia, retardation of higher mental abilities such as performing mathmatical calculations, altered perception of time, overconfidence, impaired short term memory, poor judgement and anxiety.

In many cases narcosis will amplify whatever mental state the diver was in when they started the dive. If a diver was anxious to begin with a feeling of overwhelming anxiety may occur, if the diver was happy, euphoria is more likely to occur.

There are also several factors that effect the onset and severity of narcosis including cold, increased CO2 levels, drugs, alcohol and hangovers, fatigue, fear and anxiety, rate of decent spatial disorientation due to vertigo and/or reduced visibility conditions, task loading, time pressure and increased O2 partial pressures.

In the end however the effects of narcosis on an individual diver and the depth at which they occur and begin to become debilative is a largely personal matter that varies from diver to diver and to some extent from day to day. It is pretty popular for divers or agencies to specify a particular depth or END below which a diver should not decend, but that is overly simplistic and in many case is overly conservative.

In my opinion you have to take a systems view of the whole thing. You need to look at your experience and abilities as a diver, your individual suceptibility to narcosis, the the anticipated dive conditions and any factors that may elevate or predispose the risk or effects of narcosis, your recency of experience and the objectives and technical demands of the dive to determine during the planning stages if a given deep air dive is feasable.

You then have to be very cautious executing the dive, possess a strong ability to be brutally honest with yourself about your performance as the dive progresses and be willing and able to call the dive as soon as any one of the condition or ability measures exceeds the acceptable parameters. Not all divers can do this and the whole deep air idea is becoming increasingly controversial. 130 ft used to be considered acceptable for AOW divers on air but the current fad is toward recreational trimix with ENDs limited to 70 -100 ft. I don't really agree with this as in many cases you are just trading one set of risk factors for another, but it is not worth arguing about as it still remains a personal choice.

 

[The Chairman]

Reality check...

There are two areas we humans readily see when we are "impaired" by anything... alcohol or drugs.

One is balance... the junkie or drunk have a hard time walking a stright line. Unfortuntely, you can't fall when you are suspended in a liquid medium, so we can not make a useful reference there.

The other is speach. Slurred or hesitant speach is to us a sure sign that an individual is "under the influence". Well we don't speak under water, so our other reference is gone as well.

In short, MANY people who are experiencing narcosis have no clue. That's the real danger of it. You have become farm animal stupid and have no idea that you are in this condition. You can deny it, as many do. Or you can accept it as fact and plan your dives accordingly. Personally, I would dive with anyone who admits to being narced at 80 ft, but I usually choose to not dive with those who claim that they never get narced at all. One is safe, but the other is already farm animal stupid on the surface.