Strobes for Macrophotography

[Scubaroo]

Hi,

I'm looking at strobes for a Nikonos V (first time UW photographer), concentrating on macro work - I've already decided to go with Ikelite, primarily because of perceived quality and the level of support provided for the Nikonos platform. My initial thoughts were to go for a pair of strobes - a SubStrobe 100A paired with a smaller SubStrobe 50 as a slave. However a recent book purchase ("The Underwater Photography Handbook", Kohler & Kohler, 1999), strongly recommends using equal sized strobes for macrophotography, and includes several photos of example macro systems, all with 2 SubStrobe 50 lights (great book by the way - some spectacular images in it). It also recommends equal sized strobes for wide-angle, which I can understand when you're trying to evenly light a large area.

What do people in this forum find works best for macro? A large and small strobe used in conjunction, or a pair of matched strobes? My reason for going with the large and small was to use the large strobe as the primary lighting for the subject, and the smaller slave would merely "fill in" any harsh shadows cast by the larger light. The larger strobe could also be used later on when I get into wide angle photography.

Ikelite also offer a wireless TTL slave, that dispenses with the need for a dual cord. Anyone used it, and are there any compelling reasons to use that over a dual cord for macrophotography? There is also a cheaper slave version of the SubStrobe 50, called a 50s, which is non-TTL, which avoids having to use either the dual cord or wireless TTL slave. Anyone used it, and any comment on it's performance compared to a TTL strobe when used in a pair/as a slave? It's a cheaper alternative to forking out for both the more expensive standard 50 strobe, and a dual cord or wireless TTL thingamabob, but I'm worried about any negative impact it may have on image quality.

thanks in advance,

Ben

 

[alan markus]

You have a good question and i am surprised no-one has answered you yet.

I use the ikelite 100 for macro shots(mainly for the modeling light) at 50% power, with a ikelite 50 for the second strobe. (that way you get almost equal lighting).
You can also use just the ikelite 100 which works quite well for the real close shots, and is less bulk to haul around at night.

The advantage is if you only want one strobe during the day, the ikelite 100 is a better choice than one 50, but you still have the option for two.

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

On my nik I use the sb-105, had I the need to buy a strobe it would be without a doubt the ikelite 200. You have some nice features on the 200 and it's a very well rounded all purpose strobe to use. As for macro it would depend on the distance and subject your shooting. The 50 or 100 may be plenty in most cases if your looking for high speed low drag, etc..

Ed

 

[scorpiofish]

There is no one answer. Opinions vary. I use a housed system with two SS200's. My first thought was to purchase one SS200 and an SS100. The famous professional that I purchased the system from suggested two SS200's instead. "Take as much light with you as you can afford." I have been pleased with my decision.

Using two strobes that are the same affforded several benefits. First, I use the same charger for both strobes. Second, if one goes out I still have one strobe powerful enough for all my needs. This happened on my last trip to Roatan. One strobe was dead on arrival.

Using two strobes with a dual synch cord shooting macro on TTL, both strobes are providing "enough" light per the TTL sensor. I've never had a problem with the amount of fill from the second strobe. Although any power strobe will likely work for macro, the more power you have, the smaller the output, which means quicker the recycle time. With a housed system it means I can still generate enough light to shoot fish portraits from farther away with a macro lens.

Choosing between dual cord or slave is a personal choice. I use a dual cord and have a backup single cord. When one strobe died, I switched to the single cord and kept shooting with the one strobe. Use of a TTL slave sensor allows you to use a single sych cord and more easily position the second strobe. You can be more creative by placing the slave strobe on the ground or get a buddy to hold it behind the subject. It performs no differently than a dual cord. I have enough trouble just adjusting the strobe aim for different shots. I'm not that creative on the lighting. I try to focus on composition aspects like positioning, angle and the fish behavior, so the slave option isn't all that important to me.

A non TTL slave would present some of the problems you fear about fill flash. A TTL slave will fire when it sees the first flash and stop when the first flash is done. A non-TTL slave will fire when it sees the first flash, but will dump whatever setting the strobe has. You would have to check your strobe to subject distance and calculate the proper strobe strength for each shot. This will increase the possibility of over/under exposure. TTL works great for macro.

Summary: Get two SS100's and fire away. You are correct that this will make wide angle easier. Also, the more powerful the strobe and the use of two strobes versus one allow a little more slop in strobe aim.

My photo albums are at:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1311619

 

[joewr]

I use Sea and Sea strobes with my Nikonos...a YS 30 and a YS 60. I have used the YS 30 in both the duo cord mode and slave modes with no discernable difference. Since the slave mode is less cumbersome, I use that exclusively now.

Since you will have plenty of light with nearly any good strobe, the GN is not the issue with macro. The issue is probably cycle time: thus, consider buying whatever you can afford with the shortest cycle time.

One other item: sometimes it is preferable in macro photography to use only one strobe. It all depends on what you want to do with shadows and, to some degree, what backscatter problems there are. However, in my experience there are fewer backscatter problems with macro than non-macro.


Joewr

 

[Jonathan]

Great question Ben - I was about to ask the same one but noticed yours. I too have recently got into this photo thing and am heading off to get strobed up this weekend. I will now be able to take advantage of the responses you got but will be limited to my shopping unless Joewr fancies coming along as a translator?!

Great photos scorpiofish - I think I'll keep mine hidden for now!!! Something to aspire too........

Only one further question - we are now getting an idea of what strobe people are using but what is the best lens for the macro stuff for the Nik V? I really am a beginner at this stuff and my Japanese isn't up to that! The soft corals round the Isu Penisular are fantastic and I have a couple of weekends down there coming up and want to have a play.

Jonathan

He who dies with the most toys wins.............

 

[joewr]

Jonoson-sama,

Kore wa hoka no omocha nan desuyo! (Here is another toy!). For macro using a Nikonos V, I suggest a 1:3 extension tube (with aiming bar) and your 35mm lens. Sea & Sea and Nikon both make these, but I recommend the Sea and Sea. One of the reasons that I like the Sea & Sea is that it breaks down for storage. Also, you can take it apart on your safety stop and make damaging the camera, lens, or bars less likely as you hand the camera up to the dive boat.

I recommend the 1:3 over the other extension tubes because you have a greater depth of field, a larger picture area (i.e., a greater range of subjects), and it is fairly inexpensive way to get started.

Nikonos extension tubes are usually sold as a group, making them more expensive. Nikonos Close-up Lens kits used to be available, but I have not looked recently to see if they are still available. I would not recommend those because of cost...at this point in your "career".

One more thing...even though this is really a stream of consciousness post and, so, I am not sure that is true...when one is sold a Nikonos, usually the "normal' lens one gets is the 35mm. Actually, this is a relatively useless lens. However, with an extension tube, it becomes a gem!

And, see, I told you. I suggest you get some books (eigo de kaita...written in English). But for now, I will recommend just one: Jim Church's "Nikonos Systems".

And that will do for now!


Joewr...I'll teach you one more word in Japanese...the older word for camera: "shashinki"

 

[Scubaroo]

Hi Jonathan,

I found this interesting link of Dave Knight's (don't know him) which gives a comparison of different lenses, macro tubes and closeup kit resolutions for the Nikonos. Although incomplete (it doesn't cover the 80mm lens) it suggests that the 28mm lens in conjunction with the appropriate extension tube for the subject size gives the sharpest image out of the 28mm and 35mm Nikonos lenses.

Nikonos resolution chart

Helix Photo, and Gates both manufacture and/or sell macro tubes for the 28mm lens, though the framers are closer to the lens than for the 35mm which might be a problem with skittish subjects. The 28mm also doesn't appear to offer a 2:1 magnification frame. As a beginner I'm going with the 35mm lens/tube combination (mostly because that is what the camera came with, and after buying strobes I'm running out of monopoly money).

Don't forget that the 15mm and 20mm lenses can be used for closeup wide angle, at minimum distances of 12" and 15" respectively (although at a $$$ cost). I'd love to slip an extension tube behind the 20mm and see what happens - it has a pretty good depth of field at minimum focus, it would be an interesting experiment to conduct in a pool with a pile of film, some marker cards and a tape measure

For all those that answered my previous strobe questions (thankyou!), I settled for a secondhand pair of Ikelite SS50's off eBay, which should be fine for macro. My wallet is in training for a pair of SS200's in the distant future.

Ben

 

[Jonathan]

Oh well, one of these days I'll chose a cheap hobby!!

Already noted the Jim Church book and written to Santa - when you live 6,000 miles from your family you have to think in advance. One thing you guys outside of the UK should look out for is a BBC program currently airing called The Blue Planet - the DVD comes out (and probably video) on 3rd December (what a coinicidence!) and by all accounts has some stunning imagery (is that spelt right?!) - got my order in already.......

Blue Planet Link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/programmes/tv/blueplanet/

Sounds like a tour of Shinjuku on Saturday - that would be the camera shops Joewr!!!

Also I will be brave here is the site for my photos including some of Kyoto just for you Joewr......
http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/jonathanburson

There are more to come when I can be bothered to scan them....


Jonathan

 

[bdombrowski]

I met with the same decision point you're at last year. I went with a Substrobe 100A and a Substrobe 50 on the TTL slave sensor. The results are great. As much as I would like the compactness of dual SS 50s when I'm shooting macro, I wanted the flexibility of shooting wide-angle with the SS 100A. I'm a value shopper. These two strobes cover my needs for my 20mm wide-angle to my 105mm close-up on my N90S system.

Brian D.