royrebeccagreenland
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There Are 6 People In My Family That Want To Become Certified Divers Over The Christmas Break, But We Are Confused As To Go With Padi Or Ssi. What Are The Pros And Cons Can Anyone Help?
Ssi Vs Padi
- Thread starter royrebeccagreenland
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Talk to the individual instructors and ask questions. Keep in mind, SSI & PADI are not the only options. NAUI, PDIC, YMCA and many others can be excellent choices.
How do I find an excellent course and how will I know I've found it?
Interview potential instructors. Most people never ask any questions beyond price. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Excellent instructors will usually have a higher priced class for a number of reasons. The instructor is dedicated toward providing you all the time you need to master necessary knowledge and skills. Extra pool time can be expensive. Keep in mind; the instructor is trying to make a living. His time is valuable.
Consider alternatives. While many instructors teach through dive shops, some of the best are independent instructors or affiliated with colleges, universities or YMCA's.
How long have you been teaching? Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.
Do you certify all your students? Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.
What skin diving skills will I learn? While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.
Will I learn confidence-building skills? There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.
Do you teach the panic cycle? Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.
Do your students swim with their hands? This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.
Do you work on trim? Divers should be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.
Do you overweight your students? Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.
What method do you use to correctly weight your students? Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.
Is the instructor patient? While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.
Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman? Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.
How many people will be in my class? Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.
How many certified assistants will you be using? Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.
Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water? This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.
How do I find an excellent course and how will I know I've found it?
Interview potential instructors. Most people never ask any questions beyond price. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Excellent instructors will usually have a higher priced class for a number of reasons. The instructor is dedicated toward providing you all the time you need to master necessary knowledge and skills. Extra pool time can be expensive. Keep in mind; the instructor is trying to make a living. His time is valuable.
Consider alternatives. While many instructors teach through dive shops, some of the best are independent instructors or affiliated with colleges, universities or YMCA's.
How long have you been teaching? Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.
Do you certify all your students? Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.
What skin diving skills will I learn? While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.
Will I learn confidence-building skills? There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.
Do you teach the panic cycle? Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.
Do your students swim with their hands? This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.
Do you work on trim? Divers should be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.
Do you overweight your students? Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.
What method do you use to correctly weight your students? Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.
Is the instructor patient? While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.
Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman? Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.
How many people will be in my class? Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.
How many certified assistants will you be using? Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.
Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water? This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.
BabyDuck
Contributor
hi! there's not really a difference. don't go by cost of the class, go by instructor. if you look down at the bottom of the screen, there are lots of similar threads that will have similar advice. look mostly for a teaching style that meshes with your learning style, and have fun!
ekremer
Contributor
You are going to hear this from a lot of people, but in the end it doesn't really matter. All that matters is how good the instructor is.
Diver Dennis
Contributor
instructor, instructor, insrtructor....
Have to agree with Walt on all points. It's not about the agency it's the instructor. I'll add get references and don't be shy about checking them. This is not just a sport like tennis or golf where the risk of serious injury is minimal. Things can happen down there that can have tragic consequences if you are not prepared for them. I'll also reiterate overweighting. An instructor who does this is in my opinion lazy and only interested in getting you in and out. Also is the facility clean, neat, and organized. Is the gear up to date and in good shape. How do you tell this? Take a friend who dives along when you go talk to them. Preferably one who has more than a couple dives under their belt. Also you did not include where you are from in your header or profile. There are people from around the world on this board. They will be happy to recommend shops/instructors that you could look into. Remember tho that divers are a pretty loyal group so there may be some bias in their recommendations. All in all the best advice is to be a good consumer. How would you select a physician, a lawyer, or your childs baby sitter? Be just as careful and you should be in good shape.
BrianS
Contributor
Do a search for SSI and PADI and you will find countless threads on the same subject.
I'm an SSI instructor. I'd be the same if I were with PADI or anyone. Talk to your instructor, talk to the shop, see what all offer and go from there.
Some people need more pool time than others, I'd check and see how much pool time you'll get.
Some people need more pool time than others, I'd check and see how much pool time you'll get.
Re. PADI and SSI - to be honest, there really isnt a huge difference between the 2 systems at the OW level. I teach either course in pretty much the same way.
Re. Walter's points - he has given you some good points to think about, although I have to admit I dont always agree with all of them: skin diving (I belong to the group that disagrees about the merits of that brief set of exercises that passes for skin diving training), over-weighting (over-weighting the student for the first couple of CW sets is usually a good idea; any instructor who has taught CW in the open sea can attest to that); learning skills kneeling (kneeling is the best place to *learn* a skill, although you should get to try out those skills out while swimming in OW).
Re. price - if it is very cheap, then likely the shop is making up in other ways (requiring you to buy basic gear - which isnt a bad thing, as you'll likely be buying this anyway; or having a larger class size). Unfortuntely, if it is pricey, that isnt really an indication of quality either.
Things like asking about confidence building, panic cycle, etc are really details that you shouldnt be worrying about yet IMO (as the only thing you can evaluate here is how polished the answer is). Incidentally, can *any* instructor stand up and say that NONE of his students use their arms even occasionally?
IMO, the way you find a good instructor is you look for a few things, in increasing order of importance:
1/ How many people in the class? Since you are 6, you may be able to get a class just for your group at no extra charge.
2/ What sort of a rapport do you establish with your instructor? Does s/he inspire confidence?
3/ Ask what is the timeframe of the course, what happens if 1 or more people in the group need more time or are unable to follow at the same pace as others, etc. This is important - if you are not comfortable during the course, it tells you what it will take to get comfortable. And that's the main thing.
Vandit
Re. Walter's points - he has given you some good points to think about, although I have to admit I dont always agree with all of them: skin diving (I belong to the group that disagrees about the merits of that brief set of exercises that passes for skin diving training), over-weighting (over-weighting the student for the first couple of CW sets is usually a good idea; any instructor who has taught CW in the open sea can attest to that); learning skills kneeling (kneeling is the best place to *learn* a skill, although you should get to try out those skills out while swimming in OW).
Re. price - if it is very cheap, then likely the shop is making up in other ways (requiring you to buy basic gear - which isnt a bad thing, as you'll likely be buying this anyway; or having a larger class size). Unfortuntely, if it is pricey, that isnt really an indication of quality either.
Things like asking about confidence building, panic cycle, etc are really details that you shouldnt be worrying about yet IMO (as the only thing you can evaluate here is how polished the answer is). Incidentally, can *any* instructor stand up and say that NONE of his students use their arms even occasionally?
IMO, the way you find a good instructor is you look for a few things, in increasing order of importance:
1/ How many people in the class? Since you are 6, you may be able to get a class just for your group at no extra charge.
2/ What sort of a rapport do you establish with your instructor? Does s/he inspire confidence?
3/ Ask what is the timeframe of the course, what happens if 1 or more people in the group need more time or are unable to follow at the same pace as others, etc. This is important - if you are not comfortable during the course, it tells you what it will take to get comfortable. And that's the main thing.
Vandit
annasea
Contributor
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I respectfully disagree with part of your statement, Vandit. While I do agree with you that the only thing here to evaluate is "how polished the answer is", I still think it's a necessary question for a potential student to ask.vkalia:
Case in point...
I read Walter's FAQs list on another board, and put the questions to instructors here in Vancouver. I don't recall any of them knowing what the panic cycle even was, nevermind teaching it! (BTW, they were all PADI.)
Hindsight is 20/20, of course. Had I known then (when I first tried to become certified in September) what I know now, I never would have picked the instructor that I did at that time. I'm hoping my next attempt at OW will be much more successful.
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