So this is a pretty strokey question...

[Stoo]

I've been diving in Viking Pro suits for about 30+ years and always found them to be great. I am about to replace my current suit, and for the first time, I'm considering making a change... Maybe a DUI CLX450 or FLX Extreme.

I know a LOT of people that dive in DUIs and they all "say" that they they love them but it "seems" like they have frequent problems. They all rave about DUIs customer service, which is great. On the other hand, I have no idea what Viking's customer service is like since I've never had to use it.

I was chatting with a friend earlier tonight who took delivery of a FLX Extreme 104 days ago. She has been diving all winter in it (We're in Canada) but has gradually lost her initial enthusiasm for the suit. She told me tonight that she has yet to get her gloves to seal properly, the exhaust valve is leaking (both air out and water in, and yes she has taken it apart and reassembled with no benefit) and today she split her silicone neck seal. She has also developed a leak in one arm, which she doesn't think is due to the valve. She is a competent diver and instructor and not new to drysuits. My guess is that this suit has 20 dives on it. (In comparison, my current Viking had about 700 dives on it before I got anything wet, and suddenly it's "done" as tends to be the case with Vikings...). BTW, I know she bought it 104 days ago because she said that the torn seal is 14 days past the 90 day warranty!

So my question is this: Are the DUI suits really as good as we are lead to believe, or are they just really successful at building a brand?

My intention was to stick with latex seals, "upgrade" to Si-Tech valves, and use a hard-ring glove system, so in theory, her problem areas are all being avoided. I am only using her as an example, but her experience seems to be fairly typical. We have a very successful LDS that pushes DUI, and is very knowledgeable about their products, but as a result, there are a lot of DUIs around here. Viking has little or no marketing here, and they are rarely seen outside of the public safety camp... And on me.

While I'm on a role, what's with "front entry/self-zip" suits? 99% of divers dive with someone, so there is always someone to zip up a back-entry suit. Most people I've seen with self-entry suits still use someone else to at least start the zipper. I dive solo most of the time, but I almost always have my wife/boat tender with me, but even if she isn't, I can close my rear zip easily with a bit of rope and a clip. It strikes me that this design requires a goofy telescoping design to work (extra material and "engineering"), a longer zipper, which is presumably more expensive to replace and it really seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I was diving in northern BC in October and a guy had a Bare or Whites suit and he pretty much needed to dislocate one shoulder and his neck to get into the thing!

Am I just trying to rationalize sticking with the tried and true Viking, or am I missing something...???

I really like the weight and flexibility of the DUI and I was about ready to get measured up, but as of 2 hours ago, I'm back to pondering which way to go...

Your thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[Dsix36]

My understanding of DUI is that they used to be the best that money could buy and they were high priced. Now it seems that they are still high priced but the quality has gone downhill quickly with many people having a lot of problems.

I have both a front and back entry drysuit. I prefer the ease and flex of the front entry.

Many people that would have spent the $$$ on a DUI are now going to Santi with very positive reviews.

 

[Stoo]

Thanks Dsix36... I've looked briefly at the Santi and probably should again. That Doppler guy (who has been a bud for longer than either of us care to admit) raves about them...

 

[TSandM]

I believe DUI is using Apeks valves. I've taken the Sitech and Apeks valves apart -- the Apeks valves are extremely simple and not nearly as well engineered, to my mind, to avoid leaking. And all my Apeks dump valves (except the hazmat one I have) have leaked from the get-go.

To me, especially when doing dives with a virtual or real overhead, the worst sin a suit can commit is to cause you to get wet. My Fusions have been exemplary in this regard. They have other minor shortcomings, but they don't leak and they last. And they're over $1000 cheaper than a DUI or Santi.

 

[Stoo]

To me, especially when doing dives with a virtual or real overhead, the worst sin a suit can commit is to cause you to get wet. My Fusions have been exemplary in this regard. They have other minor shortcomings, but they don't leak and they last. And they're over $1000 cheaper than a DUI or Santi.

Ain't that the truth. I'm getting old and realistically, this will be my last drysuit if it lasts 10 years. Part of me thinks that cheap is good... If I'm still diving up north in 5 years and it wears out, I'll get another one. $1000 in my pocket puts me that much closer to Belize again!

 

[Superlyte27]

I have a friend who has 5+ DUI Suits. I asked him why and jokingly (sorta) he said because he's always got a few to dive while a few are in the shop getting repaired.

DUI certainly has good marketing. And their Key Man Pricing for diving professionals is pretty aggressive. But even with that being said, I decided against buying a DUI recently. There's just too many people who have too many of them in the shop.

Honestly, if I were not a cave diver, I'd own a VIKING. I dove a viking everyday for nearly 15 years in contaminated and potable water. If you are swimming in feces or nuclear irradiated water, there's really only one choice. A Viking. Sadly, what makes a viking so great doesn't really work in Cave Diving. I wish you could get one custom fit. I'd never buy another suit. They are damn near indestructible.

So, a few months ago a student offered to tip me with a drysuit. I could choose from any suit I wanted. I decided to go with the Bare XCS2. I've had many drysuits over the past 18'ish years but this one came highly recommended from a few people. I became a Bare Dealer and ordered two of these suits. I have about 60 or 70 dives on it, and it's the best suit I've ever worn. It's 100% dry every single dive. Not a drop of water gets in. I got an off the rack suit with a few mods to it for size, and it fits darn near perfectly.

Like I said, I've only had it a few months, but I love it so far. I hope it holds up longterm. But the good news is, Bare has a lifetime warranty on the seams and zipper. So, I think I should be ok.

If it weren't for a Bare suit, I'd have ended up with a Santi. It looks to be the best made, and if it had the warranty Bare has, it would have been a really hard decision.

 

[TSandM]

My husband has had a Bare CD2 for about six years. The suit has behaved very well in the leak department, although it has had a few. However, this last time it went back to Bare, for a new zipper (which is a consumable item, and which I don't hold against the suit) they told us not to bother to send it back another time . . . it was too worn to repair any more.

 

[Colliam7]

I was chatting with a friend earlier tonight who took delivery of a FLX Extreme 104 days ago. She has been diving all winter in it (We're in Canada) but has gradually lost her initial enthusiasm for the suit. She told me tonight that she has yet to get her gloves to seal properly, the exhaust valve is leaking (both air out and water in, and yes she has taken it apart and reassembled with no benefit) and today she split her silicone neck seal. She has also developed a leak in one arm, which she doesn't think is due to the valve. . . . So my question is this: Are the DUI suits really as good as we are lead to believe, or are they just really successful at building a brand? . . . My intention was to stick with latex seals, "upgrade" to Si-Tech valves, and use a hard-ring glove system, so in theory, her problem areas are all being avoided. . . . While I'm on a role, what's with "front entry/self-zip" suits? 99% of divers dive with someone, so there is always someone to zip up a back-entry suit. Most people I've seen with self-entry suits still use someone else to at least start the zipper. I dive solo most of the time, but I almost always have my wife/boat tender with me, but even if she isn't, I can close my rear zip easily with a bit of rope and a clip. . . . Your thoughts would be appreciated!

I don't hold valve or seal durability issues against a suit manufacturer. I initially replaced the Apeks valves on my DCI suit with SiTechs and have only had a problem once, and that was after 10 years of service (I finally had to replace the inflator valve). Over the years seals have failed, or I have failed them, as have zippers. I have not held those failures against DCI, nor would I hold them against DUI.

All I can offer is opinion. DUI IS and HAS BEEN very good at building a brand. That usually doesn't happen without a certain level of quality. In the case of your friend's experience, if the valve leak existed (and was documented) before the 90 day warranty expiration, that shouldn't be an issue, anyway. And, if a leak develops even at 104 days because of a materials / manufacturing issue, I would expect a reputable manufacturer to try to accommodate some mutually satisfactory resolution. A suit that starts to leak that early, in the absence of any user 'abuse', has a problem irrespective of the warranty period.

I use a back zip, and have been able to don and doff it by myself if required (the zipper hook and nylon rope really does work), although I usually have someone available to help so it hasn't ever been an issue. My dive buddies who dive self-entry suits frequently ask for help to get the fully open zipper started toward closure, so I don't see a particular advantage.

 

[chrisch]

My husband has had a Bare CD2 for about six years. The suit has behaved very well in the leak department, ...

I bought a Bare CD2 about 5 years ago. It leaked from new. It went back (to the importers) three times before it was fixed and fixed with a rather messy solution that devalued the suit. It is possible that (if you are in North America) the actual manufacturers would do a better job. The importers claimed the suit didn't leak but the bubbles were visible as soon as you entered the water. Shame, the suit itself was pretty good IMHO.

DUI are not as good as they once were. We have some very good alternatives here in the UK, but that's not much use to the OP sadly.

 

[Diver0001]

I don't hold valve or seal durability issues against a suit manufacturer.

I think if a suit manufacturer knows that a given type of valve leaks and they still decide to use it that the suit manufacturer can be held accountable for that decision.

As for DUI suits, I know some people who have them and every single one of them says :

1) they fit better than any other suit they've ever had. On the comfort side there is literally no comparison
and
2) they leak a lot.

For some people, #1 is the biggest argument for buying a suit for other people #2 is the big thing. I think if you´re a #1 type of person, it´s probably the perfect suit. From my perspective, this is what DUI is better at than anyone else, but unfortunately they decided to use apeks valves and the light trilam they use in some of their suits, while allowing very good mobility, isn´t overly robust... so you just have to accept that the cost for that comfort is more wet dives.

Personally I'm a #2 type of guy. When we went ice diving in the Czech republic a few years ago, there were 6 of us diving, including one guy who had a DUI suit that I think cost more than the rest of our suits combined. He was very proud of it but he was the only one of us who got slight hypothermia and had to sit out dives because his suit leaked. He didn´t seem to mind and kept repeating that the suit fit him perfectly. me... I would have been furious if I had paid 5 times more for a suit than most people do (at least at the price he paid back then) and it leaked.

R..