Slammed by Instructor

[Quarrior]

Hi All,

I just came back from my trip to Jamaica and did a couple of dives over 100ft.

I am AOW and have a good computer. Both of which I did at the recommendation of my instructor who said, "if you have AOW and a computer, the DM will let you go deep if you want to."

So, I did one dive to 102ft and one to 132 ft. Basically to set a presonal record. I realize to some of you that may not be much, but to me, it was important. I also wanted to see if I would feel any Narc symptoms in a pretty controled situation. I should note, neither of these dives were for more than 4 minutes at that deepest part of the dive and both had an average depth of 56ft. Also, both dives were closely monitored by the DM as there were only 3 divers and I watched him to ensure he was monitoring me.

Anyway, all the divers I've talked to since I got back said congratulations, even the instructors. However, my instructor said, "that's pretty deep." Not in a kidding way, rather more like he was admonishing me for doing it.

Did I do something wrong by trying to expand my knowledge and experience?

Oh, these dives were seperated by at least 24 hours, not on the same day.

Thanks

Brian

 

[H2Andy]

hey brian... i assume the instructor that said "that's pretty deep" was the instructor
that certified you for AOW? or OW?

why don't you talk to him about it? i would say, sounded like you didn't think my
dives to X depth were a good idea. how come?

the dive to 132 feet exceeds recreational limits, as i am sure you know (by 2 feet, but
it's still over the limit). did you stray those last two feet or was it planned?

 

[Quarrior]

hey brian... i assume the instructor that said "that's pretty deep" was the instructor
that certified you for AOW? or OW?

why don't you talk to him about it? i would say, sounded like you didn't think my
dives to X depth were a good idea. how come?

the dive to 132 feet exceeds recreational limits, as i am sure you know (by 2 feet, but
it's still over the limit). did you stray those last two feet or was it planned?

Stray. Definately would not plan anything that required deco without being deco trained.

Oh, did a 5 min safety stop too, even though 3 min was what was required becuase I was well within my time limits, per my computer.

Thanks for asking though.

Brian

 

[theskull]

Making a deep dive "basically to set a personal record" shows poor judgement and attitude.

Make the dive to where the interesting stuff to see is, dude!

Exceeding personal experience in depth, especially past 100 ft., should be done with close buddy contact with an instructor or very trusted experienced buddy. You really don't know when or how narcosis is going to affect you at these depths until you have had a fair amount of deep dive experience. To exceed NDL, even by 2 ft. or 2 min., without training and experience in deco procedures and gas management, is very unwise--the slightest difficulty or loss of control at this point could lead to injury or worse.

Please dive safe and don't become a statistic.

theskull

 

[Cave Diver]

Stray. Definately would not plan anything that required deco without being deco trained.

That may be part of the reason why the instructor seemed to be "admonishing" you. It's "just" two feet, but you still went past the limit.

I'm not ragging you, but plan your dive and dive your plan. If you stray from your plan, then there is either a flaw in your plan or your execution of it. It could have been due to improper bouyancy control, narcosis (whether you percieved it or not), failure to realize the amount of time/compensation needed to arrest your descent or a variety of other factors.

Diving to set personal limits are never a good idea. Especially without having the proper safety procedures and practices in place in case of an "uh oh."

Please be careful out there and always remember to dive within the limits of your training and experience. You don't have to go to 100' or 130' just because you have an AOW card that says you "can."

 

[Laser]

Making a deep dive "basically to set a personal record" shows poor judgement and attitude.

That's what I ws going to say.

Make the dive to where the interesting stuff to see is, dude!

Exceeding personal experience in depth, especially past 100 ft., should be done with close buddy contact with an instructor or very trusted experienced buddy. You really don't know when or how narcosis is going to affect you at these depths until you have had a fair amount of deep dive experience. To exceed NDL, even by 2 ft. or 2 min., without training and experience in deco procedures and gas management, is very unwise--the slightest difficulty or loss of control at this point could lead to injury or worse.

Please dive safe and don't become a statistic.

theskull

Good advice.
Continuing with the gas management portion of the above comments, what size cylinder were you using?

 

[ElectricZombie]

Dive to the depth you feel comfortable. Plan your dive, dive your plan. Don't do dives just to prove something to yourself. I don't know your skill level or the specifics of the dives you mention, so I don't know if you did anything stupid or not.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

That is pretty deep, as H2Andy stated the 132 fsw dive is beyond your trained abilities per Agency Standards by a whole 2 feet. It's the company line and he's obligated to say that, just as he's obligated to tell you that solo diving is a terribly dangerous idea that should never be undertaken nor even contemplated, that is the Agency Standard. Whether he, or I, or you agree with all of the standards he, and I and other dive professionals have an obligation to emphasize the safety factors represented by these standards from time to time. When I dive with students or discuss my diving with newer divers I tend to emphasize the fun to be had and life to be seen within recreational limits, I take ow certified divers to sites where the hard bottom doesn't exceed 75 feet and I try to stay 15 ft off of it. If I'm comfortable and the dive goes well, maybe they stray to 70 ft and set a record of their own. I don't plan dives that exceed the training and experience level of the weakest diver, period.

Aside from that, 132 fsw is pretty deep. To "stray" that deep would imply that the planned depth wasn't too far away from the agency recommendation of 130 fsw, probably in the 120-125 range? I don't know how many dives you have under your belt, nor what your instructor's real knowledge of your skills and abilities are. If you have any less than 75-100 dives most instructors are probably going to encourage you to dive more conservatively. Consider your reasoning for doing this dive and whether what you wrote seems like a conservative diver or a brave diver:

Basically to set a presonal record. I realize to some of you that may not be much, but to me, it was important. I also wanted to see if I would feel any Narc symptoms in a pretty controled situation.

Did you discuss with the DM on the boat that you were setting a personal record on these dives? Did you alert your assigned buddy, on this three person (plus DM(?) dive team that you were exceeding your previous max depth by X number of feet and were interested in how the symptoms of narcosis would manifest themselves within your physiological makeup at the planned depth?

What was your comfort level on the dives? How many dives have you made and to what depths in what water conditions before? What confuses me is your insistence that the DM be monitoring you, there were two other divers in the water yet you seemed a little anxious to be going this deep, or so I infer from that statement.

If you have made multiple dives to depths below 80 fsw and a few below 105 I don't see it as much of an issue, I would quiz your instructor on his response. Maybe he'd had a bad burrito for lunch.

CD

 

[Quarrior]

All of your input and answers are quite helpful and I can understand now the issue my instructor had with it.

This is why I am on this board, to learn. I ask a lot of questions because I am new and I really try to be safe.

As for the questions asked, yes, there was a plan. Go to 130 ft. Main computer registered 132 and backup registered 128. I used the main to determine it was time to go up to a shallower depth.

The other part of the plan was to see how I felt physically at that depth and like I said, was being monitored by the DM just in case. The tank was an AL80 with 3000psi at the start of the dive and 2700 when I got to the max I wanted.

As I am a new diver, I felt this was a safe environment to learn something in. Maybe I over estimated that part and definately will consider doing otherwise in the future.

Thanks

Brian

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

I don't think it was necessarily an unsafe learning environment. If you and the DM had discussed the dive beforehand, were in agreement on the dive plan (and you understand by looking at the table or using your computer in plan mode not a "trust me" plan). Then I think clear, warm, Jamaican water is a perfect place to have such an experience. Narcosis isn't nearly as apparent, to me, when I am diving warm clear water.

Best reason to go deep is to see the cool $h*t anyway, the personal best crap is too cowboyish for this sport. There's cool stuff to see at all depths, just figure out what you want to see and then plan, take classes, do research, etc, to find and do the dives you want to do.