Signal for Entanglement

[do it easy]

Does anyone have an effective signal for entanglement that doesn't make the entanglement worse?

On the last few dives with reels, I've had to signal some students that they were getting tangled in the line. Regardless of how I signaled (touch contact, light, or just point if the vis is good), the students usually turn to look in the worst possible way to tangle the line further.

I prefer touch contact- give them a squeeze to stop, untangle them, and then signal when done, but they have to have the presence of mind to suppress their curiosity to look at what is going on.

The stop signal could work in limited situations where they wouldn't have to change orientation to receive the signal, but often, when using a line, everyone is essentially single file.

Of course, there is a hand signal for entanglement, but it would have the same delivery issues as attention or stop.

Any other thoughts or options?

 

[timle]

Perhaps altering what you teach for a response to a light signal might help. My cave instructor taught the most effective way of looking behind you is to look between your legs. Done effectively your students should be able to see the follow up signal (entanglement) with out getting further entangled.

Then of course they should be taught the best way out of entanglement (with a buddy present) is to stop moving and have the buddy deal with it.

The hand signal we used for entanglement is the signal for line (index finger & middle finger crossed) move in a figure eight pattern (entangled in line) - I use this for any entanglement.

 

[do it easy]

Perhaps altering what you teach for a response to a light signal might help. My cave instructor taught the most effective way of looking behind you is to look between your legs. Done effectively your students should be able to see the follow up signal (entanglement) with out getting further entangled.

Then of course they should be taught the best way out of entanglement (with a buddy present) is to stop moving and have the buddy deal with it.

That's a good suggestion- if they look between their legs and have their brain engaged, they will probaby figure out that the line is in places it's not supposed to be.

The hand signal we used for entanglement is the signal for line (index finger & middle finger crossed) move in a figure eight pattern (entangled in line) - I use this for any entanglement.

yup, same signal

 

[MBH]

I don't think that your signals are the problem. I'll agree that if your students are in proper trim that the best way to look behind you is just look back between your legs. It sounds like your students are just forgetting the first part of how to deal with an entanglement- stop (and that means to really stop all movement), take it slow and make one attempt to free themselves. After that we all know the drill.

As for signals the only other one I know is the touch contact for entanglement- crossed index and middle finger, I find your hand and close it around my crossed fingers while I twist my fingers back and forth.

 

[riguerin]

The hand signal we used for entanglement is the signal for line (index finger & middle finger crossed) move in a figure eight pattern (entangled in line) - I use this for any entanglement.

That's the one we use too.

Regardless of how I signaled (touch contact, light, or just point if the vis is good), the students usually turn to look in the worst possible way to tangle the line further.

Perhaps focus on getting them to stop/hold first ... then communicate the why. This takes a some development of trust among team members.

 

[do it easy]

I don't think that your signals are the problem. I'll agree that if your students are in proper trim that the best way to look behind you is just look back between your legs. It sounds like your students are just forgetting the first part of how to deal with an entanglement- stop (and that means to really stop all movement), take it slow and make one attempt to free themselves. After that we all know the drill.

As for signals the only other one I know is the touch contact for entanglement- crossed index and middle finger, I find your hand and close it around my crossed fingers while I twist my fingers back and forth.

The problem is their reaction to the signal- they see the signal and turn to look in a way that wraps them up further. They aren't exactly tied up, but they don't realize that they are trapping the line. Of course the best way would be to not get entangled in the line in the first place.

Another reason I posted this was because I had a buddy whose shoelace was coming untied in OW. I could have signaled "hey, your shoe is untied!" but I decided to just squeeze her ankle and tie it myself. She started to turn around but figured it out pretty quickly. The proper signal could be used for situations like that or when gear/hoses/stuff needs to sorted out. Of course, without a line, it's not as critical since the entanglement hazard is not there.

Also, just to clear things up, I was DM for the class.

 

[do it easy]

Perhaps focus on getting them to stop/hold first ... then communicate the why. This takes a some development of trust among team members.

That's exactly what I'm asking about- how to signal so they stop/hold, rather than turn.

 

[riguerin]

That's exactly what I'm asking about- how to signal so they stop/hold, rather than turn.

This what works for us, bro :

1) Get attention with a light signal
2) Give them a hold command

3) Tell them why

4) Reinforce the hold command

5) Go work on the problem
6) Communicate intermediate status (progress update, time check, gas status, etc), depending on complexity of problem
7) Communicate final status ... you're OK or you're broken.
8) Continue dive accordingly.

Instilling the discipline to stop/hold when commanded versus turning takes some experience and trust. It eventually comes from getting comfortable with personal abilities and those of the team.

If one of my regular buddies shoots me a stop signal, I know it means just that ... "don't frigg'n move, dude."

 

[Rainer]

The above is exactly what I was taught in GUE-F.

 

[do it easy]

If you are behind them on the line and they are fouling the line, how would you signal them so that they don't turn to look at you? In other words, they are not facing you and would have to turn around to see you or you would have to swim in front of/along side them to signal. Remember, if they turn, they will probably entangle the line even more.