Should FD divers hook up sub. cars

[Irishman894]

Is it just my FD or does every dive team (when they get called out for a submerged vehicle) assist the tow trucks with getting the vehicle out of the water? We are there for rescue or body recovery. After the vehicle and surrounding areas are searched and no rescue is needed the vehicle belongs to the insurance company. I wonder if the tow companies charge insurance for water recovery. I bet they do and they dont do anything in my city but wait for us to hook up the vehicle.

 

[Gary D.]

We hook only if we need it for evidence. Sometimes we get it up then release it at the scene when we are done.

We try not to interfer with private interprise.

Gary D.

 

[udtfire]

this is a problem but as i see it it is a public service like getting a cat ou of a tree of helping move a wreck out of the road way so as for my team we make the best of it sometimes the tow company donates 750 a car to us and sometimes they dont but because we train in water salvage its a good training session ps we only do this in daylight hours if no life is involved we do this type (training) in the light of day for safety reasons so as in all psd we take it in stride

 

[Gary D.]

Much different than removing a cat or vehicles from an accident scene. PSD's are covered or exempt from a plethora of laws, rules and regulations as long as the operation is focused on PSD operations. Once you are outside of that scope your title better be switching to more of a commercial setting which has another plethora of rules and regulations. Being paid to remove vehicles is WAY outside the scope of PSD and is well within the scope of commercial diving.

We also train removing people, items and later the vehicle from the water but we have our own training vehicle we sink and recover over and over again. This way it is in no way a commercial operation.

So is that $750.00 or $7.50 a car?

Gary D.

 

[Yotsie]

We've gotten away from random hook-ups for reasons Gary stated. Even some of the irrigation districts got upset and decided to throw a donation our way, which further complicates matters. We kindy declined the donation and told them we'll dive submerged vehicles to ensure they are unoccupied and/or of no evidentary value, outside of that, it will be their responsibility to remove them.

In California, Cal-OSHA is a bear if you violate any of their regs.

 

[BladesRobinson]

I know many agencies that go ahead and make the hookup. They're there, they're wet and the chances are good that they'll make the hookup more safely than the wrecker operator or his dive buddy will. I believe the search of the vehicle isn't complete unless the truck has been opened (who does that underwater?) and the passenger compartment has been visualized on the surface to make certain there are no signs of illegal activity (who can do that properly in zero vis?).

I know one county in Florida who is working to prosecute vehicle owners for environmental crimes if the vehicle has been abandoned or there are no signs of theft.

As Gary points out, the PSD team that is conducting "salvage" needs to follow the OSHA commercial dive standards to a T (no pun intended) and I believe most agencies working in that mode are probably OSHA compliant. If a team is unsure, they should download the OSHA 1910, Subpart T standard for commercial dive operations and make certain they are compliant.

 

[tc]

We went through the hoops about 5 years ago to make sure we were Cal-Osha compliant at the recommendation of our county safety folks.

Took a lot of work but the end result is worth it.

We'll also hook up a vehicle is we're already there to check it.

 

[ditch-diver]

Like Blades said.., we'll hook and pull because we are in the water and wet anyway. We do the in-water investigation as a assistance to the local members. We seize the car, bring it to the surface and assist the officers in clearing the trunk, checking for evidence (I've never found a signed confession on a front seat yet, but you never know). Normally it is released right at the scene and the tow company takes it away and deals with the insurance.

If and when we get calls of a vehicle in the water that it is known no one is in it, around it or missing... or no crime has been committed, (like the guy on the wharf with the prostitute who accidentally knocked the car into neutral)we tell them to call the commercial guys.

 

[bridgediver]

Part of the mission of the FD is property conservation so you could say the longer the vehicle is in the water the more fluids will leak out destroying the environment.

Having said that we don't do calls outside of our municipality specifically to remove an unoccupied/no crime scene vehicle. They would need the commercial guys.

If its within our city (in our city ponds/lakes) we will do it mostly because theres no commercial guy around and also because the city has to pay someone to get it done anyway - they also pay to have a PSD team. We wouldn't have a team for long if we wouldn't do simple hook ups.

Any PSD team in Canada it is manditory to be compliant to our federal diving regs (which considers PSD as a branch of commercial diving) so that isn't really an issue up here

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Alot of our teams will hook as well. They are there, and its a call. They tell the tow trucks to call anytime they have a car in the water, even if no-one is there...it boosts their call outs...its a service to the city, and boosts their need for a dive team, more equipment, training, etc.