Sexism?

[Dr. Lecter]

The question is how do we get the omega men off the couch?

Sufficient lapse of time, followed by a gurney, will more than suffice.

 

[drbill]

Geez, Trace... I prefer women who like their water unfrozen! I grew up in Chicago and don't need to be reminded about winter after surviving 81 below there! Tee hee.

 

[drrich2]

Trace:

Reading over your post, a few follow up thoughts:

1.) Sexism is not just a product of males, as you gave examples of. Often assumed to be, but isn't.

2.) People often lament the average income differences between men & women, without factoring in that, on average, there are differences in how they choose to live their lives. A decision to work less to invest more in family. Not trying to drive your way up the ladder to the highest point you can reach (which may be high stress, and 'Peter Principle' you into a world of misery). Ironically, they then use a measuring stick based on sizing up men to compare the sexes, and conclude that women come up short. If a man makes more money, yet gets 1/3'rd the time with his family, somehow he's 'the winner.' If she spends her day at home with family she loves, and he spends most of his in some factory or office under the thumb of a boss, he's 'the winner.'

Not all women want to compromise career or stay home to raise kids. Granted. But the statistics people use in comparing the genders should consider that there are some different trends in how people choose to prioritize and live.

On the issue of women & income, I read an article where a company did a little research into what sort of jobs men vs. women would apply for. In a nutshell, the question was, at what minimum level of qualification would you apply for a promotion? If you were 40% qualified for it? 60%? Turns out men were willing to try for jobs they were substantially less qualified for. The article author discussed it with her husband, who had the same attitude, and his view was that one of the best ways to learn a job is on the job. You might be 40% qualified at the outset, but what about a year later? If you're driven and work hard?

Men are often portrayed as being more risk takers, and women to value security more. Let's say for argument's sake that the same risk-taking mentality that might lead to faster average corporate advancement might also increase risk of alcoholism and highway fatalities?

So, who's 'the winner?'

Is it likely that men & women, on the whole, are ever going to consistently average out the same even if we condition everybody to be gender blind? If not, is that a problem?

Richard.

---------- Post added March 4th, 2015 at 07:48 PM ----------

Here's a link to that article I was talking about. It says:

Internal research by Hewlett-Packard found that women only apply for jobs for which they feel they are a 100% match; men do so even when they meet no more than 60% of the requirements.

Especially if they don't have to give up the old position to try for the new one, over time, which gender will come to dominate the corporate culture?

 

[Jill Heinerth]

Hi Reef Wrecker,

I'm back form Cuba and catching up on this great thread.

You can download sidemount DVD here:
Sidemount Diving

Cheers!

Jill

Have I ever witnessed sexism in diving? No. I've performed and been around many acts of chivalry though. Helping people, even if they don't need it, is the right thing to do. If they don't want help, that's a different story.

I make sure my Wife is geared up and buddy checked because I am responsible for her. I will do the same for my children when they get old enough to dive and any buddy I'm paired with.

I think writing an article on sexism in diving is just another way to divide people. To be honest, I wouldn't even read it.


Besides, I've never had a woman offer to help carry my tanks...ever.




P.S. Jill, I really want to buy your sidemount DVD, but I'm overseas wishing I could still pay and download it!

 

[Freewillow]

My buddy wife and I are not equal, we are completing each other. We are both "over the hill". While she needs my help in order to get her equipement back to the boat, she is the one that pays attention to details, checks deco and depth much better than I do............this makes for us a safer and more enjoyable dives. Why do people have to fight for "equality", when complementarity is much better?

That makes me think about something that my boss told me once. "Do not be afraid to voice a different opinion. If everytime, you have the same opinion, one of us is useless.".

I love the idea that women have skills that I do not have. It makes our lives much more enjoyable

 

[Primalchrome]

Why is it worse to discriminate a woman because of her gender than it is a man?

Both are negative. Both are a part of our culture (speaking for the US) that needs to change somewhat. All fathers are not bumbling idiots that don't know how to change diapers. All mothers aren't reliant on a male to change lightbulbs. They're silly stereotypes that should stay in the comedic realm. That said...one is a bit more harmful than the other. It is a non-debatable point that we live in what has historically been a male dominated society and...there are fair arguments that might dictate that we still do. So for the last 200 years we have had an underclass composed of females that had issues with what modern society considers basic human rights. Owning property, voting, autonomy, etc... So this underclass deserves the benefit of the doubt...a more protected status to continue weeding out the anachronisms that still believe in the culture we need to leave behind.

I think 'quotas' will be phased out in the next couple of decades. I hope 'hate crimes' and 'terrorism' will lose any legal definition. ...and I pray that my kids grow up to treat with people based on their personal traits, both pro and con. But while you may feel we always treat women as equals or give them preferential treatment.....the disgusting fact is that in our society today (US) we still treat women as being a lower caste in some cases. It is OK to rape a woman if you're a football player...or sexually assault her if she's blacked out drunk..........because she was asking for it, of course. That little minx and her wiles. Did you see how she was dressed? Can you believe that they would ruin that poor boy's future when she was the one in the short skirt and passed out on the steps? You know how women are, am I right guys?
If you don't see that there are still issues to be rectified....it might be because your bias puts you inside looking out.

 

[Storker]

All fathers are not bumbling idiots that don't know how to change diapers.

I really hope not. I spent a total of 12 months on paternity leave with our three children. I was the primary caretaker, and I've changed more diapers than I care to think about. I really hope I didn't mess that job up.

All mothers aren't reliant on a male to change lightbulbs.

I sincerely hope so. My wife changes the tires of the car she's using for her daily commute, twice a year. I'd hate for her to do such a crappy job that her tires fell off on hr way to work.

I think 'quotas' will be phased out in the next couple of decades.

I hope so, too. I won't hold my breath while waiting, though. I believe quotas are a necessary evil to increase the number of members of any underrepresented gender to quite a few jobs.

It is OK to rape a woman if you're a football player...or sexually assault her if she's blacked out drunk..........because she was asking for it, of course. That little minx and her wiles. Did you see how she was dressed? Can you believe that they would ruin that poor boy's future when she was the one in the short skirt and passed out on the steps? You know how women are, am I right guys?

OK, now I have to admit I'm just a little bit shocked. Is this the Western world in 2015?

What kind of @$&%!!! loser gets any satisfaction from screwing someone who isn't willingly and enthusiastically participating? At least, that's the basics of the message I've been trying to give my sons for the last ten (or so) years, since before they reached puberty.

 

[lesaddison]

I'm mostly a shore diver and I'm a tech diver (GUE). I will say that there have been two charters that I didn't enjoy-- one with a DM who had just moved to the area and a captain who didn't like divers, and the other was one with about 14 people of which I was the only woman. The level of competitive one-upping that was on that boat was really annoying. Had a *great* trip with woman captain last month, and the two guys on the boat were surprised by how different it was diving in a group of mostly women.

 

[Freewillow]

TECH diver with less than 25 dives! Interesting

 

[TSandM]

Somehow I suspect somebody hasn't updated her dive count . . .