Scubapro mk25/s600 or Apeks XTX100??

[1amphibian]

New to DIR and about to make purchases of new regulators. Since I have decided that I will be slowly moving up to Technical and Cave diving.

If deciding which 1st and second stage setup to go with, which regulator would you suggest?? The Scubapro Mk25/S600 or the Apeks XTX100 ?? Are there merits of one over the other?

Is pricing the only real factor, or just personal preference? Which one would you get if you were deciding between the two?


Chris.

 

[gr8ful divr]

I don't own either reg and I'm a fairly new diver so I don't have an answer for your specific question. What I will say from talking to a GUE instructor is that most of the GUE guys dive Scubapro. I personally dive Atomic for now. When I asked the GUE guys why they dove Scubapro over the other high end regs they indicated that having everyone diving the same regs means that everyone has interchangable parts. Therefore if you find yourself with a faulty regulator someone likely has a spare part and/or spare reg that you can borrow. I also read a transcript of a speech George Irvine gave in California where he said that the WKPP team uses Scubapro because they sold them a ton of regs dirt cheap. He goes on to say that he would choose Apeks if he was to do it today. Honestly I think that all of the high end regs are very good. So the two main things to consider from what I have been told are how standard the parts are and how easy everything is to work on. I was told that my Atomic regs (though superb regs) are more difficult to work on and do not have standard parts that are readily available. Again, I'm no expert but this is what I was told. So if you ever think you'll dive with GUE and/or WKPP you might as well go with the Scubapro. Of course maybe Apeks will give them a great deal on some Apeks regs and then those will be standard DIR.

 

[maccajim]

Choice is up to you big difference is the hose routing for doubles the scubapro work quiet well not to many tight bends apeks have a few tight turns depending on the 1st stage;.
I'm using atx 200 1st and 2nd's on my doubles there are a few different ways to set them up with the rubber enviro seal facing in or out.
Personally i think the apek breathe smoother if i had to buy again i would get apek ds4 1st and all atx 50 2nd stages for everything.
Also consider servicing if get into tech diving end up with over 6 or more regs then cost service locally comes into play.

from the Gue trained divers i have seen it is about 50/50 scubapro to apek.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

Honestly I think that all of the high end regs are very good. So the two main things to consider from what I have been told are how standard the parts are and how easy everything is to work on.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Any of the higher end Scubapro or Apeks regs will be sufficient. I am somewhat partial to Scubapro because I think they provide better hose routing options for doubles. I also like the turrets for stage regs, since it makes air sharing a little easier. Some people view the turret as a potential failure point, but in over 10 years of using Scubapro regs (Mk10/15/20), I have never seen any problem with the turrets failing. The Apeks are preferred by some due to the environmental seal, so if that is an issue for you, then I would go with the Apeks.

For the most part it's a "Ford vs Chevy" argument, and I don't think you can go wrong with either brand. I think what it boils down to is what's available for purchase in your area, and what local shop gives you the best value for your money.

I was told that my Atomic regs (though superb regs) are more difficult to work on and do not have standard parts that are readily available.

The biggest problem with the Atomics is the second stages, which require a tool to service. The outer cover can be removed by hand, but there is an inner retaining ring that screws in, and must be removed with a tool to get access to the diaphragm. Also, the newer Atomics I have seen have some kind of funky "swivel" thing at the second stage hose fitting, which could be a problem as far as attaching non-Atomic hoses. Older Atomics don't have this "feature" and I don't really understand why they changed the design, but that's what they're doing now.

Any reg that forces you into a "single source" situation for hoses and fittings is going to be a bad choice in the long run - this is true whether you are DIR or not (and also applies to other industries besides SCUBA ). It's always best to stick with equipment that interchanges and can be serviced with industry standard parts.

 

[ScubaKimmie]

The XTX200 is what I use. Only 100 bucks more than the MK-25 and I'll never have it freeze on me, ever.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

The XTX200 is what I use. Only 100 bucks more than the MK-25 and I'll never have it freeze on me, ever.

Good point - I should probably have mentioned that most of my diving is done in relatively temperate water (above 65F), although I have used the Scubapros in water down to the low 50s with no problems. If potential freezing is a concern, then the environmental seal becomes a more attractive option (perhaps even a necessity).

 

[Dan Gibson]

I have an older M1 (purchased in 2002 or 2003). My buddy borrowed it for a stage reg during cave 2 and had to pull it apart while entering Little River because the diaphragm somehow folded back and water was pouring into the reg. No special tools were needed to remove the inner retaining ring under water. He did this just at the entrance. The flow was pretty good that day, so it couldn't have been too hard. This reg does not have the special cave ring, whatever that really is.

I'm not sure if they have changed anything since then other than the silly swivel.

The biggest problem with the Atomics is the second stages, which require a tool to service. The outer cover can be removed by hand, but there is an inner retaining ring that screws in, and must be removed with a tool to get access to the diaphragm.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The XTX200 is what I use. Only 100 bucks more than the MK-25 and I'll never have it freeze on me, ever.

I agree the Mk 25 can be problematic with regard to freeze flows in water below 40 degrees. On the other hand, you can get a fully sealed Mk 17 for less than the price of a Mk 25 and a lot less than the price of an XTX200. Plus I like the hose routing on the Mk 17 for doubles and any hose bends are minimal, especially if you cross the hoses from left to right.

 

[cerich]

I agree the Mk 25 can be problematic with regard to freeze flows in water below 40 degrees. On the other hand, you can get a fully sealed Mk 17 for less than the price of a Mk 25 and a lot less than the price of an XTX200. Plus I like the hose routing on the Mk 17 for doubles and any hose bends are minimal, especially if you cross the hoses from left to right.

You don't have a Scubapro Bias do you?

 

[1amphibian]

I am in Tampa and most of my diving is to be in the springs in N Florida and the gulf and Keys. So Cold water isn't really a concern (was 12 years old before i learned that water freezes naturally in some places) And one of my LDS's just offered me a really sweet deal on the XTX100's so I'm going to go with those.

These new ones have the first stage that has equal ports on both sides (1 hp/2lp) and it looks as though hose routing will be very easy with them. I'll let you know soon enough.

Thanks for all the great info, I appreciate it.