Scubapro Mark VII and AIR 1 - Who still services them?

[lminmychair]

I have a mark 5 and two 109's from 1980. I still get them serviced at my local ScubaPro dealer. Great reg. I got them from my father, who purchased them new in 1980.

Any Scubapro dealer should be able to service both the Mk5 and Air 1. Mk 5 kits are readily available and the Air 1 uses the same service kit as the D300/350/400.

Awesome thanks guys! Guess I'm going to be making some calls to find someone to do this service.

 

[rhwestfall]

109's are still going strong, easily serviced, and, except for major parts replacement, maintenance parts are readily available. These are eagerly sought out by folks on this board. I have 9 of them..... Don't let anyone tell you they can't be serviced.....

 

[DA Aquamaster]

As noted above, the air delivery side of the MK VII is basically a MK V and uses the Mk V kit. Those are still available. Servicing the oscillator side is not possible and even if a dealer still has the old kits with the required o-rings they are WAY past their expiration date as the shelf life on them is about 5 years. Even new in the package, I would not recommend using them in a reg.

Which means best case, the air delivery side gets serviced and you just shoot for the oscillator side not leaking. If it still honks, that's just gravy on the potatoes.

---

The Air 1 is similar in that it does use the same poppet as the D300/350/400. For the Mk II, Mk III, MK V, MK VII Mk VIII, Mk 9, Mk 10, MK 15, High Performance, Adjustable, Balanced Adjustable, Pilot, Air 1, D300, D350 and D400, Scubapro no longer provides anything other than annual service parts plus whatever remaining stock of parts they have on hand for them - which is not a whole lot at this point for some of the regs in question.

The Air 1 uses a very unusual arrangement where the diaphragm also is the exhaust valve. They breathed a little wet at times but had excellent exhalation traits and no CGF issues. However, there are no new diaphragms available from Scubapro and there are also no horseshoe clips, and both are potentially problematic as the Air 1 used an ultrasonically welded case that was essentially one piece after it was made. Consequently, it takes a fair amount of fines to remove and re-install the horseshoe clip and diaphragm without putting a hole in the diaphragm or less commonly, breaking a tab/arm off the clip. If you punch a hole in the diaphragm or break the clip, you are pretty much SOL without access to replacement parts. That makes many dealers hesitant to service them.

It also does not help that Scubapro also recommends they not be serviced, as it increases the liability on the shop and on the tech if one is serviced and something happens. A diver could have a massive coronary and when a lawyer discovers he was using a reg that the manufacture recommended no longer be serviced, it's going to become evidence in a civil suit.

Finally, finding a tech who could still service them is problematic. Scubapro barely covers old models like the D400 in their expert classes, and the Air 1 might get mentioned, but more in terms of "don't service it, sell them a new reg". Which is to say Scubapro no longer trains techs to work on it. That's not a negative, as it's just not cost effective or prudent to dedicate a portion of the limited training time to a reg that a tech might see once a year and never work on enough to be competent to work on. If you have one and want to use it, you pretty much need to send it to someone who works on several of them per year.

That said, I really like them for personal use and I have a stash of them that I rebuilt and stored for potential future use and parts donation. The Air 1 and the Pilot were the only high performance easily switchable left or right hand inlet second stages Scubapro has ever had and I think the Air 1 has potential in side mount diving. I also love the performance of the Pilot, but they are a little too temperamental for my tastes.

 

[mictrik]

We have a few kits for the MK-VII and one or two replacement "Oscillators"; I am not sure how old they are but I am sure that DA is correct in his assessment regarding part life. I was just using a MK-VII today, honking was very low and seemed to start at lower than 500psi. I may through a kit in it for kicks. I have not seen a MK-VII come in for service for a few years now. That said I did service an AIR-1 and a MK-V a few months ago. I also serviced two converted Pilots and one Pilot this year one of the converted pilots and the Pilot was my own however. I have a number of pilot parts; pilot pins, Diaphragms, Diaphragm clips, Ball's, aspirators etc... So far I have never ripped a diaphragm and hope I never do. Once you get it down it is very easy to replace the Diaphragm on Pilot /Air-1's. However, I could see how a person could have trouble if they were to rush.

I really like these regulators and very much wish Scubapro would release a regulator that followed the principles of the Air-1 or Pilot. A screw on D series type Diaphragm cover with a dual purpose Diaphragm in the same vein as the pilot would be nice. The Pilot valve is very nice but has it's issues perhaps an Air-1 design with a metal case and screw down diaphragm cover. A regulator like this would sit the line up as an ultra-high performance regulator and more clearly set Scubapro apart from other high end offerings. I never read the CE free flow requirements but i suspect that it might be difficult to tune such a reg to it's potential and meet those specs. Perhaps a more positive Dive/Pre-dive setup, one that really impedes lever travel. Ah, will never happen..! Sorry for the digression...

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I really like these regulators and very much wish Scubapro would release a regulator that followed the principles of the Air-1 or Pilot. A screw on D series type Diaphragm cover with a dual purpose Diaphragm in the same vein as the pilot would be nice. The Pilot valve is very nice but has it's issues perhaps an Air-1 design with a metal case and screw down diaphragm cover. A regulator like this would sit the line up as an ultra-high performance regulator and more clearly set Scubapro apart from other high end offerings. I never read the CE free flow requirements but i suspect that it might be difficult to tune such a reg to it's potential and meet those specs. Perhaps a more positive Dive/Pre-dive setup, one that really impedes lever travel. Ah, will never happen..! Sorry for the digression...

I like the idea of a vintage version of the Air 1.

My understanding is that the easy way to score big on WOB charts is low exhalation and I suspect the AIr 1 could do very well there. I'll have to play around with a magnahelic and see what I get. It already has low inhalation efforts, and no major CGF issues, so it could do quite well in terms of WOB.

----

In regards to servicing, I've never ripped one either, but for the average tech who has only been around a few years, they'll have difficulty finding any service information for it other than a schematic, and they will probably not have anyone to show them how it's done. That lowers the odds of a successful service considerably.

Sadly, the different nature of the Air 1, both the diaphragm and the center balanced poppet design, makes it "different" and Scubapro eliminated the D400 in large part as it was "different" to service and adjust, so rather than focusing on it in training, they discontinued the reg and replaced with it the X650 that looked similar but in no way shared the same operating principles and in no way offered the same performance advantages.

 

[rockinrebel]

Thanks DA Aquamaster.
I really appreciate the very detailed message on the MK VII and AIR 1.
It just reaffirms that it is time for a new regulator.
I just replaced my second generation AIR 2 with a 4th generation AIR 2 just this past week. Tried it out in my pool and the 4th gen. breathes much better.
New diving equipment ain't cheap, but it sure is COOL !!!
Thanks again.
Chuck

As noted above, the air delivery side of the MK VII is basically a MK V and uses the Mk V kit. Those are still available. Servicing the oscillator side is not possible and even if a dealer still has the old kits with the required o-rings they are WAY past their expiration date as the shelf life on them is about 5 years. Even new in the package, I would not recommend using them in a reg.

Which means best case, the air delivery side gets serviced and you just shoot for the oscillator side not leaking. If it still honks, that's just gravy on the potatoes.

---

The Air 1 is similar in that it does use the same poppet as the D300/350/400. For the Mk II, Mk III, MK V, MK VII Mk VIII, Mk 9, Mk 10, MK 15, High Performance, Adjustable, Balanced Adjustable, Pilot, Air 1, D300, D350 and D400, Scubapro no longer provides anything other than annual service parts plus whatever remaining stock of parts they have on hand for them - which is not a whole lot at this point for some of the regs in question.

The Air 1 uses a very unusual arrangement where the diaphragm also is the exhaust valve. They breathed a little wet at times but had excellent exhalation traits and no CGF issues. However, there are no new diaphragms available from Scubapro and there are also no horseshoe clips, and both are potentially problematic as the Air 1 used an ultrasonically welded case that was essentially one piece after it was made. Consequently, it takes a fair amount of fines to remove and re-install the horseshoe clip and diaphragm without putting a hole in the diaphragm or less commonly, breaking a tab/arm off the clip. If you punch a hole in the diaphragm or break the clip, you are pretty much SOL without access to replacement parts. That makes many dealers hesitant to service them.

It also does not help that Scubapro also recommends they not be serviced, as it increases the liability on the shop and on the tech if one is serviced and something happens. A diver could have a massive coronary and when a lawyer discovers he was using a reg that the manufacture recommended no longer be serviced, it's going to become evidence in a civil suit.

Finally, finding a tech who could still service them is problematic. Scubapro barely covers old models like the D400 in their expert classes, and the Air 1 might get mentioned, but more in terms of "don't service it, sell them a new reg". Which is to say Scubapro no longer trains techs to work on it. That's not a negative, as it's just not cost effective or prudent to dedicate a portion of the limited training time to a reg that a tech might see once a year and never work on enough to be competent to work on. If you have one and want to use it, you pretty much need to send it to someone who works on several of them per year.

That said, I really like them for personal use and I have a stash of them that I rebuilt and stored for potential future use and parts donation. The Air 1 and the Pilot were the only high performance easily switchable left or right hand inlet second stages Scubapro has ever had and I think the Air 1 has potential in side mount diving. I also love the performance of the Pilot, but they are a little too temperamental for my tastes.

 

[mictrik]

I agree completely they discontinued these designs for ease of training and service continuity. I also think that there is a CE freeflow guideline component to their decision to sunlight the designs. The D300/350/400 could freeflow readily and hardily when the VIVA Aspirator Gate is set to not deflect. Since SP did not consider the VIVA to be user adjustable this might be an issue. My opinion when comparing newer offerings of standard design to the earlier designs is that the newer cases have been designed to reduce freeflow. For example I find that the G250v does not perform in terms of easy of inhalation quite as well as the older G250's (not HP). in my experience older G250's can hold lower mag settings than the G250V. I also find the VIVA to be stronger on older G250's but this is more subjective and in part due to more restrictive mouthpieces. I would be curious to see if anyone else has noticed this.

Regarding the AIR-1, I was able to set for a cracking effort of .2 & achieve a stable result (as per diver experience) with the new kits. The orifice was like new however as was the reg witch had been well cared for and stored for 25 years. I do not recall the exhalation number but it was very low. The duel use Diaphragm opens for a very unrestricted flow of gas from exhale. In terms of CFG the design like the Pilot seems to have a little less than 1.5" of max depth differential in the vertical position, how it remains stable at such low cracking efforts is a result of other characteristics. Typically I would never set nor expect the regulator to be stable at .2 and usually set higher. My Pilot however is demonstrably stable at .2.

As long as I am on this train of thought I wanted to mention that though the D series regulators have a sub 1" depth differential due to the coaxial arrangement of the exhaust valve with the axis of the diaphragm AND, the sub 1" radius of the exhaust valve. I would imagine that the smaller exhaust valve size would present an increased overall WOB at greater depths relative to regulators with larger egress arrangements. The dual purpose diaphragm of the Pilot/AIR-1 looks as though it provides for a considerably larger area of egress than most regulators even though it uses roughly half the circumference of the diaphragm during exhale. I am sure there is more to consider here that i am missing.

 

[lminmychair]

Unfortunately no one wants to touch my stuff with a 10 foot pole in the Jersey area. I can definitely see what everyone is saying about liability reasons for shops not wanting to service it. Maybe I'll just pony up for new stuff.

That being said, I'll have an unserviced 109 & Pilot regs, and a MKV that will need a new home. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me could put them to use. If anyone is in the Jersey area with any interest let me know. Thanks everyone for all of the info.