yak
Contributor
This is my first dive trip report, and it a long one, in my rambling style.
April 2003
Day 1 - OW Dive 1
Jardines, max depth 34 ft, dive time 44 min, vis 60-70 feet, El Pepino
After doing a pool check the previous day, I arrived at the ScubaCaribe (SC) dive shop to find that the scheduled dive instructor was not present, so I was taken over to SC at the RIU Playacar (a short beach walk) to meet a dive instructor there. I was briefed, and told pretty much that I wouldnt be doing any skills, just diving, with one OW#4, and 2 certified divers.
The El Pepino is about 24 feet, center console boat. Todays dive sites are about 15 minutes north past PDC.
We did a backward entry, assembled on the buoy line, and descended. I watched the other student diver remove/replace her mask, do a compass swim, and hover. It was a nice reef, saw a rainbow of fish groupers, angels, parrots, and plenty of types that I cant name, along with spotted morays, lobsters, urchins, and many varieties of corals, with some nice bright purple fan corals (they always look nicer on the shallow reefs in brighter light).
I was a bit surprised to see the dive instructor skim so low that his fins frequently dragged across the tips of many of the leafy corals. (I later noticed the fire coral stings on the backs of his hands - hmmm).
My BCD is a Seaquest Pro QD with integrated weights. I used 14 lbs , 4s in front, and 3s in back. It seemed to be ok, but as I later found, I could go lighter. My exposure setup for the week was a 3mm shorty, with 3mm booties.
Day 1 - OW Dive 2
Moxche, max depth 43 ft, dive time 46 min, vis 60-70 feet, El Pepino
On this dive, I did the cramp removal, tired diver tow, and snorkel/regulator exchange , then continued the dive. We saw green morays, lots of urchins, and a similar variety of fish and corals. At the end, there was a small arch that we swam through that was nice.
My dive instructor took 4 pounds from each of my front pockets and put a 3 onto my tank strap. I was ok weight-wise, but I was a bit top heavy. I finished this dive with 9 pounds.
Day 2 OW Dive 3
Chenzubal max depth 30 ft, dive time 39, vis 50-60 feet, El Pepino
Back at the RIU Palace shop, I had a new instructor. She was relaxed and very thorough.
I used 10 lbs this time, 3s in front, 2s in back.
We were diving with 2 new OW1 students. I entered the water without my scuba gear, and put it on in the water, in 3-4 foot waves. We descended to about 25 ft and practiced a controlled emergency ascent with me only breathing out the whole time and inflating my BCD manually once on the surface, then the OW1 students jumped in and we descended to the sandy bottom. I dont know how well they demonstrated buoyancy skills in the pool, but man did they trash the reef! It didnt help that they held hands the entire dive. The instructor kept us near the sandy perimeter at the edge of the reef, so we didnt get to see as much, but it was just as well, as I think the reef would have taken a pounding. This instructor demonstrated a much better respect for the reef, IMO.
Day 2 OW Dive 4
Moxche, max depth 43 ft, dive time 48 min, vis 50-60 feet, El Pepino
The moment of truth!!!
Back to Moxche, we descended to a sandy area next to the reef, where I did my hovering, mask remove/replace, and compass navigation. My instructor shook my hand, pronounced me certified, and I celebrated by hovering upside down. We then did the same basic dive as dive 1. Saw some cudas, and sting rays. Exited the water as an Open Water Certified Diver woo hoo!
Day 3 OW +1 (This is really dive # 13 in my log, as I had done 8 resort dives in Aruba, Bermuda, Provo, and Mexico prior to my OW dives.)
Tortugas, max depth 84 ft, dive time 36 min, vis 40-50 feet, new boat
I walked down the beach to the RIU Yucatans dive shop next door to catch a different (bigger, twin-engine) boat with 3 Italian divers, bound for a site famous for turtles. The early morning deep dives left at 8:30 This reef was about 10 minutes south of the RIUs. The DM was very thorough in his briefing to me, then repeated it in Italian for the other divers. He suggested that I pick up a couple of extra lbs to be sure I could descend in the expected current, so I dove with 12 lbs.
The dive was over a flat reef around 70 feet, with a pretty good current. We saw about a dozen turtles, some sitting on the ocean floor. It was cool to drift by just inches from their noses. But I had hoped to see more than we actually did.
One annoying moment my buddy was on my left, with the dive master to his left, when the DM turned to check out a moray, and waved my buddy over. By the time I glanced left, I was about 15-20 feet past them, and had to kick like hell against the current to get to them, where they were holding onto a rock. (In retrospect, I should have found a rock to hold onto and just waited where I was but I didnt think it wise of him to put me in the position of having to look for a safe handhold or fin like hell. I probably used a couple hundred pounds of air in less than a minute.)
We finished the dive in a drifting safety stop at 15 ft, then exited in 4-5 foot seas.
Day 4 OW + 2
Punta Venada max depth 106 ft, dive time 32 min, vis 35-45 feet, another new boat
Started this from SCs RIU Yucatan shop. We - myself, one of my Italian friends (her companions were diving the cenotes), and a diver from Germany, were informed that the boat had a steering linkage problem, and they were securing another boat. 45 minutes later, we were in another small boat heading to the reef.
A different DM today, again, a very thorough briefing.
This was a sloping reef, allowing us to ascend slowly while drifting over the reef. This was a very beautify reef, and had a nice variety of corals. Saw some big honkin green morays too!
Safety stop, then back on the boat in 1-2 foot seas.
Day 5 OW + 3
Mama Vina max depth 88 ft, dive time 30 min, vis 45-60 feet
I had my Italian and German friends again, along with a new buddy from England.
The Mama Vina is an upright wreck, about 55 feet long and 30 feet high. We circled around the outside in a bit of current, with schools of jacks, then entered the rear for a single file swim-through. The huge schools of tiny fish inside the wreck shimmered in my light. We circled again on the topside, and did a second swim though of the outer deckway. On the way in the second time, I was checking out a small spotted worm that looked like a caterpillar crawling on the rail. I pointed it out to my German friend, and he indicated that it is a stinger, so I made sure not to bump into it. After swimming along the half enclosed deck area and exiting, I turned to look for our German friend, and he wasnt behind me. He then appeared around the port side of the stern, and swam up to us. After circling the boat one more time, I noticed that he was now buddy breathing with the DM. We drifted off the back of the wreck and starting a slow ascent. At about 40 feet, my friend was back on his own air. Turned out he had gotten stung by one of the worms he had warned me about!
Day 6 OW + 4
Barracuda max depth 41 ft, dive time 44 min, vis 30-40 feet, back on El Pepino
I came down that morning for the early dive, only to find that I was the only diver signed up, so that dive was called off. They checked with both the SC shops at RIU Yucatan and Playacar, and neither had a boat going out at 8:30. I came back at 10 for the 10:30 shallow dive, and as I walked toward the boat with three new dive mates from Italy, the captain came in saying that the harbor was closed due to high seas, which he then confirmed via radio at the shop. As I was removing my equipment, bummed that I wouldnt be diving on my last day, the DM (my day 2 instructor) came back out and said that it was now open again, and we needed to hurry before they closed it again.
We stumbled into El Pepino in 4-6 foot surf, and pounded our way out to the Barracuda reef. We wasted no time in getting in and down, and drifted over a colorful, multi-level reef . The DM claims she saw one barracuda, but none of us saw a single one. Hmmm.
The most exciting part of the dive was getting the boat moored in the surf, taking waves over the bow without the stern drain plugs open oops!
My overall impressions of ScubaCaribe were positive, and despite the display of bad reef etiquette by Instructor # 1 and my incident with the DM on Tortugas, I found majority of the staff to be very safety conscious, extremely helpful, and just fun people. I enjoyed diving with them, and would do so again (after visiting Coz of course). Natalie, Rigo, Marco, Sas, Antonio, Sylvia, (I probably missed a few others) - thanks!
In addition to the local reefs, they also offer day trips to Coz, as well as Cenote trips.
One thing which I wondered about on day 1 I noticed fine bubbles coming from the top of my buddys tank, below where the valve is fitted into the tank. I pointed it out to the instructor. He later told me it was minor, and they would fix it. I noticed two tanks with the same type of leak on dive 2. It looked to me like an unsafe tank, but being new to diving I dont know how common this is. I certainly wouldnt want to be the one filling those tanks.
Resort Review
RIU Palace is one of 4 RIU properties that are more or less adjacent to each other. If you stay at the Palace, you can play at the other 3 (everything except dinner). The Palace is their high-end resort, the grounds are very plush, and everything gets cleaned and buffed daily. The pool was split down the middle by a walkway, and only one half is serviced by a swim up bar, so the other half is hardly used, and each half seems small (compared to others I have been at such as the Barcelo Maya). The paving stones around the pool are dark, and they get hotter than hell for most of the day. Reserving pool lounge chairs with towels is forbidden, so you can usually find a good spot up til 10:00 in the morning.
If you have kids, bring plenty of sunscreen, it was mid 80s every day. Tip # 1 you may also want to invest in swim shirts, my kids used them and they worked out very well. We got them here: http://www.solartex.com/
Theres lots of palm trees between the pool and the beach, with hammocks scattered along the way. Theres a beach bar, and 2 huts that each offer massage, henna tattoos, and hair braiding. The prices are higher than youll find in PDC - no surprise. There is also a pottery painting area.
The beach has moderate to high surf, and water toys are available such as boogie boards, windsurfers, kayaks, etc. Theres no place to snorkel at this beach, but there are 2 snorkeling boat excursions daily, and I heard that they fill up fast. They also offer parasailing, and will ferry you out to the boat on a jetski. It costs $50 pp, or $90 for a tandem. Theres a guy on board who will take digital pictures and sell you the diskette for $20. Almost forgot, I saw lots of topless women on the beach, and even a few by the pool. Bummer, eh?
The restaurants were pretty good, and some dishes were great. Breakfast is served in the main restaurant, with indoor and outdoor seating. The coffee sucks, but the espresso is passable. Breakfast has a good variety of hot & cold foods I usually had a fresh-made omelette each day. Tip #2 If you have kids (or if you love ice cream), you can take cups and spoons from the to-go coffee stand and use them for ice cream at the poolside restaurant (or else you have to settle for the tiny cones). I also saw people taking whole coffee carafes back to their rooms in the morning. After the main breakfast shuts down (10:00 am) theres an American Breakfast from 10 noon in the restaurant nearby the pool.
Lunch is served in a few places, but I only tried the poolside restaurant - actually theres two restaurants under one roof. One side offered pasta, pizza, and other hot foods, while the other offered different dishes, and usually some type of Mexican food.
Every afternoon they had bocce around 3pm, and at 4pm it was Bingo by the poolbar.
Drinks were pretty good. I dont drink a lot of hard liquor, so the house brands were fine for my blender drinks. You can ask for imported booze, and depending on which bar youre at, they may have something other than el Mexicano. I liked the Dirty Monkeys, which was like a mudslide. The beer is Corona on tap period. They serve it in plastic beer mugs. Tip #3, get yourself a large insulated drink mug, you can use it for coffee in the morning (if you can stomach it), and it will cut down on the number of trips to the bar, as well as keep your cold drinks cold. We drank only bottled water (although I brushed my teeth in the tap water each night).
Dinner was the only (slight) pain in the butt. You had to select an early or late seating in the main dining area, and were assigned a table number which was yours for the week. The pain in the butt was that men had to wear long pants! But you could reserve a table in the outdoor poolside restaurant (el Patio) where you could wear shorts, and where you order off a menu. The third choice was the Argentine meat restaurant (also long pants), which was no big deal. The main restaurant also had theme nights Italian, Chinese. I missed them both.
I cant say I saw any of the shows, as I usually had my son in bed by 10. Theres a courtyard where they usually have an band prior to the show, and you can sit outside and enjoy a drink. They also had 2 market nights with local vendors setting up their carts in the courtyard. Theres a cigar man there every night Cubans, of course. I got mine a little cheaper in PDC, which was a $5 taxi ride away.
The rooms were clean, and the maids left towel animals on the beds sometimes. We left a tip under the pillow for the maid, and one in the fridge along with a note on our beverage preferences for the beer boy. Toward the end of the week, I noticed what I think was a third set of people who seemed to only clean the bathrooms. I guess I missed them.
You might want to request a room on one of the higher floors we were on the ground floor facing the small path that ferries people from the RUI Tequila to the beach. There wasnt much of a breeze back there, so I had to dodge a few skeeters when I wasnt blowing cigar smoke at them.
A final note, my kids used those earplugs that reduce the cabin air pressure during our flight descents. They seemed to mitigate a lot of the ear pressure that they both experienced last year.
Any other questions - PM me and Ill do my best to answer them.
April 2003
Day 1 - OW Dive 1
Jardines, max depth 34 ft, dive time 44 min, vis 60-70 feet, El Pepino
After doing a pool check the previous day, I arrived at the ScubaCaribe (SC) dive shop to find that the scheduled dive instructor was not present, so I was taken over to SC at the RIU Playacar (a short beach walk) to meet a dive instructor there. I was briefed, and told pretty much that I wouldnt be doing any skills, just diving, with one OW#4, and 2 certified divers.
The El Pepino is about 24 feet, center console boat. Todays dive sites are about 15 minutes north past PDC.
We did a backward entry, assembled on the buoy line, and descended. I watched the other student diver remove/replace her mask, do a compass swim, and hover. It was a nice reef, saw a rainbow of fish groupers, angels, parrots, and plenty of types that I cant name, along with spotted morays, lobsters, urchins, and many varieties of corals, with some nice bright purple fan corals (they always look nicer on the shallow reefs in brighter light).
I was a bit surprised to see the dive instructor skim so low that his fins frequently dragged across the tips of many of the leafy corals. (I later noticed the fire coral stings on the backs of his hands - hmmm).
My BCD is a Seaquest Pro QD with integrated weights. I used 14 lbs , 4s in front, and 3s in back. It seemed to be ok, but as I later found, I could go lighter. My exposure setup for the week was a 3mm shorty, with 3mm booties.
Day 1 - OW Dive 2
Moxche, max depth 43 ft, dive time 46 min, vis 60-70 feet, El Pepino
On this dive, I did the cramp removal, tired diver tow, and snorkel/regulator exchange , then continued the dive. We saw green morays, lots of urchins, and a similar variety of fish and corals. At the end, there was a small arch that we swam through that was nice.
My dive instructor took 4 pounds from each of my front pockets and put a 3 onto my tank strap. I was ok weight-wise, but I was a bit top heavy. I finished this dive with 9 pounds.
Day 2 OW Dive 3
Chenzubal max depth 30 ft, dive time 39, vis 50-60 feet, El Pepino
Back at the RIU Palace shop, I had a new instructor. She was relaxed and very thorough.
I used 10 lbs this time, 3s in front, 2s in back.
We were diving with 2 new OW1 students. I entered the water without my scuba gear, and put it on in the water, in 3-4 foot waves. We descended to about 25 ft and practiced a controlled emergency ascent with me only breathing out the whole time and inflating my BCD manually once on the surface, then the OW1 students jumped in and we descended to the sandy bottom. I dont know how well they demonstrated buoyancy skills in the pool, but man did they trash the reef! It didnt help that they held hands the entire dive. The instructor kept us near the sandy perimeter at the edge of the reef, so we didnt get to see as much, but it was just as well, as I think the reef would have taken a pounding. This instructor demonstrated a much better respect for the reef, IMO.
Day 2 OW Dive 4
Moxche, max depth 43 ft, dive time 48 min, vis 50-60 feet, El Pepino
The moment of truth!!!
Back to Moxche, we descended to a sandy area next to the reef, where I did my hovering, mask remove/replace, and compass navigation. My instructor shook my hand, pronounced me certified, and I celebrated by hovering upside down. We then did the same basic dive as dive 1. Saw some cudas, and sting rays. Exited the water as an Open Water Certified Diver woo hoo!
Day 3 OW +1 (This is really dive # 13 in my log, as I had done 8 resort dives in Aruba, Bermuda, Provo, and Mexico prior to my OW dives.)
Tortugas, max depth 84 ft, dive time 36 min, vis 40-50 feet, new boat
I walked down the beach to the RIU Yucatans dive shop next door to catch a different (bigger, twin-engine) boat with 3 Italian divers, bound for a site famous for turtles. The early morning deep dives left at 8:30 This reef was about 10 minutes south of the RIUs. The DM was very thorough in his briefing to me, then repeated it in Italian for the other divers. He suggested that I pick up a couple of extra lbs to be sure I could descend in the expected current, so I dove with 12 lbs.
The dive was over a flat reef around 70 feet, with a pretty good current. We saw about a dozen turtles, some sitting on the ocean floor. It was cool to drift by just inches from their noses. But I had hoped to see more than we actually did.
One annoying moment my buddy was on my left, with the dive master to his left, when the DM turned to check out a moray, and waved my buddy over. By the time I glanced left, I was about 15-20 feet past them, and had to kick like hell against the current to get to them, where they were holding onto a rock. (In retrospect, I should have found a rock to hold onto and just waited where I was but I didnt think it wise of him to put me in the position of having to look for a safe handhold or fin like hell. I probably used a couple hundred pounds of air in less than a minute.)
We finished the dive in a drifting safety stop at 15 ft, then exited in 4-5 foot seas.
Day 4 OW + 2
Punta Venada max depth 106 ft, dive time 32 min, vis 35-45 feet, another new boat
Started this from SCs RIU Yucatan shop. We - myself, one of my Italian friends (her companions were diving the cenotes), and a diver from Germany, were informed that the boat had a steering linkage problem, and they were securing another boat. 45 minutes later, we were in another small boat heading to the reef.
A different DM today, again, a very thorough briefing.
This was a sloping reef, allowing us to ascend slowly while drifting over the reef. This was a very beautify reef, and had a nice variety of corals. Saw some big honkin green morays too!
Safety stop, then back on the boat in 1-2 foot seas.
Day 5 OW + 3
Mama Vina max depth 88 ft, dive time 30 min, vis 45-60 feet
I had my Italian and German friends again, along with a new buddy from England.
The Mama Vina is an upright wreck, about 55 feet long and 30 feet high. We circled around the outside in a bit of current, with schools of jacks, then entered the rear for a single file swim-through. The huge schools of tiny fish inside the wreck shimmered in my light. We circled again on the topside, and did a second swim though of the outer deckway. On the way in the second time, I was checking out a small spotted worm that looked like a caterpillar crawling on the rail. I pointed it out to my German friend, and he indicated that it is a stinger, so I made sure not to bump into it. After swimming along the half enclosed deck area and exiting, I turned to look for our German friend, and he wasnt behind me. He then appeared around the port side of the stern, and swam up to us. After circling the boat one more time, I noticed that he was now buddy breathing with the DM. We drifted off the back of the wreck and starting a slow ascent. At about 40 feet, my friend was back on his own air. Turned out he had gotten stung by one of the worms he had warned me about!
Day 6 OW + 4
Barracuda max depth 41 ft, dive time 44 min, vis 30-40 feet, back on El Pepino
I came down that morning for the early dive, only to find that I was the only diver signed up, so that dive was called off. They checked with both the SC shops at RIU Yucatan and Playacar, and neither had a boat going out at 8:30. I came back at 10 for the 10:30 shallow dive, and as I walked toward the boat with three new dive mates from Italy, the captain came in saying that the harbor was closed due to high seas, which he then confirmed via radio at the shop. As I was removing my equipment, bummed that I wouldnt be diving on my last day, the DM (my day 2 instructor) came back out and said that it was now open again, and we needed to hurry before they closed it again.
We stumbled into El Pepino in 4-6 foot surf, and pounded our way out to the Barracuda reef. We wasted no time in getting in and down, and drifted over a colorful, multi-level reef . The DM claims she saw one barracuda, but none of us saw a single one. Hmmm.
The most exciting part of the dive was getting the boat moored in the surf, taking waves over the bow without the stern drain plugs open oops!
My overall impressions of ScubaCaribe were positive, and despite the display of bad reef etiquette by Instructor # 1 and my incident with the DM on Tortugas, I found majority of the staff to be very safety conscious, extremely helpful, and just fun people. I enjoyed diving with them, and would do so again (after visiting Coz of course). Natalie, Rigo, Marco, Sas, Antonio, Sylvia, (I probably missed a few others) - thanks!
In addition to the local reefs, they also offer day trips to Coz, as well as Cenote trips.
One thing which I wondered about on day 1 I noticed fine bubbles coming from the top of my buddys tank, below where the valve is fitted into the tank. I pointed it out to the instructor. He later told me it was minor, and they would fix it. I noticed two tanks with the same type of leak on dive 2. It looked to me like an unsafe tank, but being new to diving I dont know how common this is. I certainly wouldnt want to be the one filling those tanks.
Resort Review
RIU Palace is one of 4 RIU properties that are more or less adjacent to each other. If you stay at the Palace, you can play at the other 3 (everything except dinner). The Palace is their high-end resort, the grounds are very plush, and everything gets cleaned and buffed daily. The pool was split down the middle by a walkway, and only one half is serviced by a swim up bar, so the other half is hardly used, and each half seems small (compared to others I have been at such as the Barcelo Maya). The paving stones around the pool are dark, and they get hotter than hell for most of the day. Reserving pool lounge chairs with towels is forbidden, so you can usually find a good spot up til 10:00 in the morning.
If you have kids, bring plenty of sunscreen, it was mid 80s every day. Tip # 1 you may also want to invest in swim shirts, my kids used them and they worked out very well. We got them here: http://www.solartex.com/
Theres lots of palm trees between the pool and the beach, with hammocks scattered along the way. Theres a beach bar, and 2 huts that each offer massage, henna tattoos, and hair braiding. The prices are higher than youll find in PDC - no surprise. There is also a pottery painting area.
The beach has moderate to high surf, and water toys are available such as boogie boards, windsurfers, kayaks, etc. Theres no place to snorkel at this beach, but there are 2 snorkeling boat excursions daily, and I heard that they fill up fast. They also offer parasailing, and will ferry you out to the boat on a jetski. It costs $50 pp, or $90 for a tandem. Theres a guy on board who will take digital pictures and sell you the diskette for $20. Almost forgot, I saw lots of topless women on the beach, and even a few by the pool. Bummer, eh?
The restaurants were pretty good, and some dishes were great. Breakfast is served in the main restaurant, with indoor and outdoor seating. The coffee sucks, but the espresso is passable. Breakfast has a good variety of hot & cold foods I usually had a fresh-made omelette each day. Tip #2 If you have kids (or if you love ice cream), you can take cups and spoons from the to-go coffee stand and use them for ice cream at the poolside restaurant (or else you have to settle for the tiny cones). I also saw people taking whole coffee carafes back to their rooms in the morning. After the main breakfast shuts down (10:00 am) theres an American Breakfast from 10 noon in the restaurant nearby the pool.
Lunch is served in a few places, but I only tried the poolside restaurant - actually theres two restaurants under one roof. One side offered pasta, pizza, and other hot foods, while the other offered different dishes, and usually some type of Mexican food.
Every afternoon they had bocce around 3pm, and at 4pm it was Bingo by the poolbar.
Drinks were pretty good. I dont drink a lot of hard liquor, so the house brands were fine for my blender drinks. You can ask for imported booze, and depending on which bar youre at, they may have something other than el Mexicano. I liked the Dirty Monkeys, which was like a mudslide. The beer is Corona on tap period. They serve it in plastic beer mugs. Tip #3, get yourself a large insulated drink mug, you can use it for coffee in the morning (if you can stomach it), and it will cut down on the number of trips to the bar, as well as keep your cold drinks cold. We drank only bottled water (although I brushed my teeth in the tap water each night).
Dinner was the only (slight) pain in the butt. You had to select an early or late seating in the main dining area, and were assigned a table number which was yours for the week. The pain in the butt was that men had to wear long pants! But you could reserve a table in the outdoor poolside restaurant (el Patio) where you could wear shorts, and where you order off a menu. The third choice was the Argentine meat restaurant (also long pants), which was no big deal. The main restaurant also had theme nights Italian, Chinese. I missed them both.
I cant say I saw any of the shows, as I usually had my son in bed by 10. Theres a courtyard where they usually have an band prior to the show, and you can sit outside and enjoy a drink. They also had 2 market nights with local vendors setting up their carts in the courtyard. Theres a cigar man there every night Cubans, of course. I got mine a little cheaper in PDC, which was a $5 taxi ride away.
The rooms were clean, and the maids left towel animals on the beds sometimes. We left a tip under the pillow for the maid, and one in the fridge along with a note on our beverage preferences for the beer boy. Toward the end of the week, I noticed what I think was a third set of people who seemed to only clean the bathrooms. I guess I missed them.
You might want to request a room on one of the higher floors we were on the ground floor facing the small path that ferries people from the RUI Tequila to the beach. There wasnt much of a breeze back there, so I had to dodge a few skeeters when I wasnt blowing cigar smoke at them.
A final note, my kids used those earplugs that reduce the cabin air pressure during our flight descents. They seemed to mitigate a lot of the ear pressure that they both experienced last year.
Any other questions - PM me and Ill do my best to answer them.
