Scuba Diving FLAG... the origin?

[mad]

hi buddies!
A friend of mine asked in my board...
WHAT'S THE ORIGIN OF THE RED AND WHITE STRIPED FLAG?
I'm surprised... nobody knows.

And here? do you?

ciao, Marco

 

[Bob3]

I read an article on it a couple years ago. I know a few different persons/companies (other than the "inventor") tried to copyright it but it it didn't fly.
From Underwater magazine: (not the whole article, just the short story) In the 50's Ted Nixon from Benton Harbor, Michigan, found out that the Navy used the Baker flag (solid red flag, means "stay away") and the Coast Guard used the #7 flag. Both flags mean several things and Nixon came up with this design (red with the white stripe). A seamstress in Flint, Michigan made the first dive flag in 1957. Once Cousteau start using the flag, it became accepted. Mr. Nixon never received monetary reward or recognition for the flag.

 

[norcaldiver]

I found this that has a different guy as the originator, but it was in Flint.

Then again this does say it was Nixon.

 

[OglalaDiver]

Ive heard the story of "Doc" Dockery before....think I read it in Dive Training magazine. If Im not mistaken, he's the owner of Vortex Springs in NWFL....or has some connection to it anyways.
Marty

 

[Walter]

The sources I've seen all favor Ted Nixon.

 

[simbrooks]

A follow-up question is why did they need a "new" flag when the internationally known (except for many US recreational boat owners, who dont know any flags or rules of the waterway) flag is the A flag (diver down)?

IF you took the American dive flag elsewhere in the world i would think you would get weird looks as it isnt used elsewhere (to my knowledge). This isnt an anti-American comment, but i was surprised to find this "new" flag (to me) when i arrived over here compared to what i had grown up seeing in UK. I would like to know the reasoning for doing it, or if it was "just because it could be done".

 

[Walter]

The alpha flag is not a divers down flag. It is a navigation signal. It means the vessel is limited in its ability to manuveur because underwater operations are under way. It is not appropriate to fly the alpha flag when making a shore dive.

The red and white divers down flag originated in the US, but it is used internationally.

 

[simbrooks]

Walter, i am sure you have been around the sea more than i have (seeing as you are older, now live by it in Ft Myers). I grew up around sailing and racing yachts and dinghys, not to mention motor boats, ok they were all in the uk and from a quick search on maratime signal flag i found this:
http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/signal-meaning.html
Its an Aussie site, but the meaning is still the same internationally, the A (alpha) flag can kind of mean to say what you wrote, but in simple terms the meaning is "Diver below (when stationary); I am undergoing a speed trial". True enough that if you are shore diving (assuming not dive-kayaking or similar) then you have no boat on the surface and so the maratime signal isnt truly valid.

I was mostly around boat divers in the UK, but never saw that red and white flag from boat or shore divers before i moved over here, hence i reckon its meaning i feel would be lost in UK if not other places - like i said, most recreational boaters wouldnt know half the standard flag signals anyway.

I dont mean to ascert that i know all about the sea, just this is what i found and remembered from my time on the water in the past - this (mainly US) flag was foreign to me.

 

[simbrooks]

I stand partially corrected and partially correct, read in the divers flags of the UK Divers:
http://www.ukdivers.com/info/flags.asp#Divers Flags

 

[Bob3]

The "current" use of the Alpha=diving flag was started by the Scuba Retailer's Association so their members could have more merchandise to sell to unsuspecting divers that were purposly misled into thinking that the USCG required divers to use the alpha flag. The flag only pertains to boats, not divers.
To top it off, I've seen very very few Alpha flags that were even of LEGAL size.

Restricted Maneuverability
The Navigation Rules require vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver to display appropriate day shapes or lights. To meet this requirement, if your vessel (under 12m) is engaged in diving activities during the day, then it must exhibit a rigid replica of the international code flag "Alpha" not less than 3.3 feet/ 1 meter in height. If the diving activities are at night, then your vessel must display the navigation lights shown in Figure 11.(vertical red-white-red) This requirement does not affect the use of a red and white divers flag, which may be required by State or local law to mark a diver's location. The "A" flag is a navigation signal indicating your vessel's restricted maneuverability and does not pertain to the diver.

I'm not even going to get into the "day shape" for anchored vessels (black round ball) or "restricted in maneuvering" vessels over 12m (black ball, black diamond, black ball) the next thing you know, some fool outfit will be telling divers that they need those too.
http://www.marinesafety.vic.gov.au/...ay/CHAPTER+2Daymarks+for+vessels?OpenDocument