Scuba class complaint

[spacemanspiff1974]

Maybe its because I've been in too many advanced science classes, but does anyone here have a problem with the way that a class such as nitrox can be watered down?

We discussed MOD, ideal gas mix, EAD etc. However, we kept repeating the dangers and benefits of nitrox. I was sitting in the class and screaming on the inside about this. It felt like for the amount of time given we could have been learning quite a bit more.

1. What algorithms are actually used in the nitrox tables and how are they calculated?
2. On which tissues are the algorithms based?
3. How does increased PO2 effect cellular/molecular metabolism?
4. What drugs, in combination with an incresed PO2 change these effects and what is the basis behind these mechanisms?
5. Given the extra time in class, why not discuss multiple gas switching at depth rather than waiting until an advanced nitrox class?

Sorry for the rant, but a good class should leave you feeling mentally exhausted yet satisfied with the amount learned.

 

[The Kraken]

Hey, Spiff,

I'd venture to say that a great number of divers don't even know to which phylum we belong, much less what tissues are being loaded and to what extent.

the K

 

[El Orans]

How about this thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=143823?

 

[Daner]

You mean you don't enjoy sitting for three hours while the instructor teaches simple algebra to the mathematically challenged?

 

[PerroneFord]

Maybe its because I've been in too many advanced science classes, but does anyone here have a problem with the way that a class such as nitrox can be watered down?

We discussed MOD, ideal gas mix, EAD etc. However, we kept repeating the dangers and benefits of nitrox. I was sitting in the class and screaming on the inside about this. It felt like for the amount of time given we could have been learning quite a bit more.

1. What algorithms are actually used in the nitrox tables and how are they calculated?
2. On which tissues are the algorithms based?
3. How does increased PO2 effect cellular/molecular metabolism?
4. What drugs, in combination with an incresed PO2 change these effects and what is the basis behind these mechanisms?
5. Given the extra time in class, why not discuss multiple gas switching at depth rather than waiting until an advanced nitrox class?

Sorry for the rant, but a good class should leave you feeling mentally exhausted yet satisfied with the amount learned.

Maybe you took the wrong class. We talked about all these things in my Nitrox class.

 

[Dragon2115]

1. What algorithms are actually used in the nitrox tables and how are they calculated?
2. On which tissues are the algorithms based?
3. How does increased PO2 effect cellular/molecular metabolism?
4. What drugs, in combination with an incresed PO2 change these effects and what is the basis behind these mechanisms?
5. Given the extra time in class, why not discuss multiple gas switching at depth rather than waiting until an advanced nitrox class?

Sorry for the rant, but a good class should leave you feeling mentally exhausted yet satisfied with the amount learned.

A good class also shouldn't blow out everyone but the biggest egghead in the room either. That's not meant as a crack against you btw. I'm just remembering a class I took years ago where on the first day the teacher went up and derived a formula that went all across the entire blackboard. He had some people so flustered that by the second class half the students dropped out because they thought they wouldn't be able to handle it. As it turned out the teacher was just showing off. Unfortunately it was a bad move because it cost him half his class and the school half their tuition for the class.

As for the list, I think items 1, 2, and 3 above are of no importance to learning how to dive safely on recreational nitrox. Although they may be interesting subjects from a clinical standpoint they are way beyond the objective of the course. Therefore why waste the time and confuse or overload the students with information they simply don't need? Number four would be useful however because it makes the student aware of potential reactions they might encounter using recreational nitrox and OTC medications. This was covered a bit in the class I took in so far as to warn us that it's a good idea to check with a doctor before mixing any OTC drug with elevated PPO2's to understand if there is any potential side effect. I don't think number five should be covered though because it's way beyond the objective of the class and probably the skill level of the students at that point. Gas switching is not typically done during a recreational dive unless we're talking about an OOA situation. I think gas switching is something better left to a tech diving class.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

I see very little if any benefit whatsoever to your average diver, of which I am one, of discussing most (but not all) of the 5 points mentioned above.

What would it benefit the diver to know the exact algorithm used,....are you going to ever need it during a dive? No. Why bother with the exact tissue, are you going to somehow change that? Well, other than losing some flub,.....No again.

What does multiple gas switches at depth have to do with a recreational level nitrox course?

I teach a pretty long, boring and extensive Nitrox class, which includes actual practical uses of the gas but I wouldn't dream of wasting somebodys time on this stuff. I may lightly or casual make reference if the topic came up with certain individuals at most.

Now for 699.00 I would give you more info to chew on that you bargained for.....and I guarantee I wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about, and more importantly it would never come into play practically in any recreational level diving.

I'm a show-me type of guy. You'd have more problems to worry about explaining to me why you can't actually dive than you would care to waste in a classroom on truly needless info, and I'm an info freak!

JMO

Regards

P.S Doc has an interesting Nitrox class thread going on here somewhere.

PPS: same-time posts Dragon. Good call.

 

[BarryNL]

You mean you don't enjoy sitting for three hours while the instructor teaches simple algebra to the mathematically challenged?

Hmm, I'm not sure the algorithms for tissue loading/offloading could be described as simple algebra, and the RGBM algorithms certainly aren't.

 

[Ron Brandt]

It's time to take a tech course from a tech agency.....
In the meantime check this link out
http://www.deepocean.net/deepocean/index.php?science03.php

And this by Bruce Wienke:
http://home.earthlink.net/~toddclagett/NovaTech/sdeco.pdf

Ron

 

[laivindil]

Maybe its because I've been in too many advanced science classes, but does anyone here have a problem with the way that a class such as nitrox can be watered down?

We discussed MOD, ideal gas mix, EAD etc. However, we kept repeating the dangers and benefits of nitrox. I was sitting in the class and screaming on the inside about this. It felt like for the amount of time given we could have been learning quite a bit more.

1. What algorithms are actually used in the nitrox tables and how are they calculated?
2. On which tissues are the algorithms based?
3. How does increased PO2 effect cellular/molecular metabolism?
4. What drugs, in combination with an incresed PO2 change these effects and what is the basis behind these mechanisms?
5. Given the extra time in class, why not discuss multiple gas switching at depth rather than waiting until an advanced nitrox class?

Sorry for the rant, but a good class should leave you feeling mentally exhausted yet satisfied with the amount learned.

1. There are many. Navy, RGBM, Haldan, Cochran has their own IIRC, variations on all of them. Take your pick. Usually useful only to comp and table manufacturers. Unless you want to make your own tables... (which I admit would be cool)
2. IIRC either the "moderate" tissues or "fast" tissues.
3. If any; that'll be different for each diver, and I think you'd need to be hooked up to some diagnostic machines to find out.
4. What for? Planning on playing with your metabolism at depth? Sounds like Graduate-level or higher research to me.
5. Because rec divers take the "simple" nitrox course. More advanced divers go on to take more advanced classes.

I hear you on these, but at lower level courses there's no reason to scare the rec divers away. Focus on getting the basics down cold, then if you're interested seek out higher level courses. For #s 3 and 4 a doctor who specializes in diving medicine might be able to help. Try "Marine Science and Physiology".