Santi Heated Vest?

[kelemvor]

Greetings,

I've recently been giving serious thought to working towards cave certification. After discussion with a few instructors, my first step is to be sidemount. I got the gear, and signed up for a sidemount class. I've been thinking of exposure protection. I really don't relish the idea of drysuits. I was thinking of trying one of the santi heated vests. The santi site says they're fine wet. I'm looking to keep warm for 2ish hour long dives in 72f spring water. I do caverns and other spring dives with a lavacore over a 3mm shorty. I wear gloves, but usually no hood. I get a little cool in about an hour but not really cold. It would not be suitable for much longer dives.

I see UTD also makes a heater, although it's physically a good deal smaller than the santi. I presume that means less effective?

I also own a scubapro 5/7 full suit, but I hate wearing it. It is quite toasty, but just too darn restrictive.

Is it worth attempting such a setup? Although the cost is not insurmountable for dry, it is significant. Also having read about at least one recent incident implicating possible dry difficulties, I'm somewhat apprehensive.

Please weigh in with comments and suggestions.

 

[bamafan]

Go dry you will need the redundant buoyancy.

 

[RJP]

I was thinking of trying one of the santi heated vests. The santi site says they're fine wet.

The Santi vest is "fine if it gets wet in your drysuit" but I do not think it's appropriate with a wetsuit. Per the owners manual "The Heating vest is designed to be worn over thin form fitting thermal underwear and under the diving undersuit."

If you're worried about the cost of a drysuit... you might just skip cave diving altogether. Seriously.

As to a thread with "possible dry difficulties" with drysuits... which thread is that? There's often a nonsense thread of negative aspects of diving dry. Personally, I don't know a single cave diver that doesn't dive dry.

That said - go dry. You'll be so much more comfortable. (Why do people describe wetsuits as "quite toasty" when what they really mean is "I didn't die of hypothermia.)

 

[kelemvor]

Why do people describe wetsuits as "quite toasty" when what they really mean is "I didn't die of hypothermia.

The times I've worn it in spring water, it was uncomfortably warm. Last time I dove it, I had to unzip it mid dive and leave it open. But, that was in shallow water on a mostly cloudy day.

I had forgotten the redundant buoyancy benefit. I guess it's what I will have to do. Sigh.. so much to learn to get in the cave

 

[RJP]

With as few dives as you have, I'm surprised anyone would tell you to go side mount as the first step towards cave. Seems a bit odd. When you say you consulted with a few instructors... were any of them CAVE instructors?

 

[TSandM]

The Santi setup is designed for dry suits. When they say it's okay wet, they mean you won't fry if your dry suit leaks.

There is a Thermolution setup for wetsuits. I've never tried it and know no one who has.

The Florida caves run in the 65 to 70 degree range. That pretty much requires some solid exposure protection. You do not want to be hypothermic in a cave, because you can't get out until you get to the exit, and your ability to think and function is degraded by being cold. Cave divers spend a lot of time controlling all the risks they can. Hypothermia is a risk, and an easy and relatively inexpensive (in the global range of what it costs to cave dive) one to fix. If you don't have an attitude of being willing to do what it takes to minimize risk, cave diving may not be your area.

 

[kelemvor]

The Santi setup is designed for dry suits. When they say it's okay wet, they mean you won't fry if your dry suit leaks.

There is a Thermolution setup for wetsuits. I've never tried it and know no one who has.

The Florida caves run in the 65 to 70 degree range. That pretty much requires some solid exposure protection. You do not want to be hypothermic in a cave, because you can't get out until you get to the exit, and your ability to think and function is degraded by being cold. Cave divers spend a lot of time controlling all the risks they can. Hypothermia is a risk, and an easy and relatively inexpensive (in the global range of what it costs to cave dive) one to fix. If you don't have an attitude of being willing to do what it takes to minimize risk, cave diving may not be your area.

On the exposure protection front.. I suppose drysuit is what I'll do. I assume I'll need training and a good bit of practice to get my trim and buoyancy under control with that gear change as well... might not end up in cave1 until 2015 at this rate

With as few dives as you have, I'm surprised anyone would tell you to go side mount as the first step towards cave. Seems a bit odd. When you say you consulted with a few instructors... were any of them CAVE instructors?

Hmmm.. that's concerning. Yes, one was a cave instructor - the other is interning for a cave instructor card. I chatted online with a third cave instructor albeit briefly. So... you seem to think that's a red flag. I presume you mean to say most instructors would prefer or even insist back mount doubles for cave vs side mount.

Can anyone else chime in their opinion here? Am I being led astray or even doing something stupid? Is learning cave in sidemount something that's a point of contention between instructors?

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

I see UTD also makes a heater, although it's physically a good deal smaller than the santi. I presume that means less effective?.

My buddy last summer dove a 3mm wetsuit with the UTD heater. Kept him pretty happy in ~65 degree water, FWIW.

 

[TSandM]

There's a lot of controversy about sidemount versus backmount. Some of us feel that everybody ought to learn backmount, because it's applicable to the vast majority of caves there are to dive, and it's still the most widespread configuration for cave and technical diving. When you get to where you need sidemount, either because you are diving small cave where you have to have it, or because you have a physical issue that makes carrying doubles problematic, you have only the configuration to learn, because all the cave-specific diving skills and procedures are already ingrained.

But that makes the most sense if you have been diving a harness system from the beginning, or if you have an application for backmounted doubles in your other-than-cave diving. If you are going straight from a recreational BC into cave diving, it is probably just about as big a transition to manifolded doubles as to sidemount (except for the fact that you have to have a bit more situational awareness, perhaps, to monitor your gas supply in sidemount).

Florida seems to be going more and more to sidemount. Mexico I think still has a lot of backmount divers.

I've done both, at least a little, and I'd start with backmount, personally.

 

[MegToothMark]

I'm a big fan of my Thermalution heated rash guard. I own the Compact Dive Series and was able to test one of their wireless models while diving last year....I believe it was called the Yellow Grade suit. The rechargeable batteries are extremely small (less than an inch thick) on my Compact Dive series but are double the size in the wireless model I tried. (double the battery life on the Yellow suit, though) All batteries are kept internally, and do not interfere with your tank or other dive gear during your dive.

The suits get HOT too! If you wear one under a dry suit, I would put a layer between the suit and your skin to keep from your back getting too hot. Without any water in your suit, the heat is just a little too warm in my opinion to keep directly on your skin. You can turn the heat on and off as you need it during your dive; the batteries last around 2 hours, 15 minutes for my Compact Dive Series on low. It's definitely a good option for keeping warm your entire dive. If you are one of those people who normally start to get the shivers after 30 minutes or so, it should easily solve your warmth problems when added to your current wetsuit setup.