Santi heated flex 2.0 vs BZ400

[broncobowsher]

Thoughts between the two? Yes, I know the 400 will be warmer, besides that.

What is the coverage of the heater? Early this year I picked up a UWLD heat controller and SF heated undergarments, well shirt anyway. I'm not overly impressed with the heated shirt. The heat is fine, where there is heat, armpits to waist. I got a cold shoulder as I froze my ass off (not really that bad, but I had to mix those two puns)

For reference the typical dive is in 45-60 California waters and can be up to a couple hours on a rebreather.

My thoughts are a 2.0 and if I need to bolster it I have a light weezle I could layer to give the outer similar to the 400.

Plans were to check them out in person at DEMA this year. Don't have a local dealer that has them in stock to check out in person. But my DEMA plans got sidetracked.

 

[broncobowsher]

Unless someone talks me out of it I think a 2.0 will be ordered the first of the year. As much good stuff that I hear about the BZ400, I think it will be too warm for me. I have a Halo that is already too warm at times. Actually really good in the water, but tend to overheat on the surface. At which point I sweat, and then I am cold. Thought being the 2.0 should be almost enough alone, maybe a little heat during the dive. And have more room to go higher on deco.

There was a post that stated a BZ400 (unheated) is great for below 50°F but too warm above it. 50°F is generally my lower limit of where I dove locally. Rare times it might hit 48°, but mid 50s would be more common. And some of the Arizona surface temps can get rather roasty.

Was hoping to check them out in person at DEMA. But I didn't make it. And that didn't matter since Santi wasn't there either. So I couldn't even get friends who did go to get touchy feely with it.

 

[rduquesnoy]

I think it really depends on personal preference. In the Netherlands I dive almost all year round in my BZ400 (water temperatures till maybe 20 degrees Celcius / 68F) , even on hot days outside the water.

Now during the winter season I use the BZ400 in combination with the Santi heated vest and gloves. It's might be a bit bulky but I hate being cold and I find this a pleasant combination (water temperatures from 8 degrees Celsius / 46F or less).

 

[jborg]

I feel this didn't really get discussed as exhaustively as I'd have hoped. I'm in Sweden and considering my first heated setup for the winter. The cold period diving here in southern Sweden is generally around 2-8 ℃ (35-46 ℉) with occasional colder dives, but they tend not to be too long. Air temperature is usually around the same as the water temp, windy and damp. There may be occasional dives in 0℃/freezing water and/or ice dives, but it's not the norm.

Currently, I'm using a Waterproof "Warmtec HD" 300g undersuit, plus a layer or two of merino and fleece underneath as required, dry gloves with decent liners. It's... adequate, I guess, mostly, but never really comfortable. It gets really bulky, and quite sweaty while setting up before hitting the water, despite being cold outside. In the water I inevitably get cold, first hands and feet and then the body, often to the point of shivering at the 45-50 min mark and calling the dive due to cold.

So I'm looking to a) increase warmth and hopefully b) decrease bulkiness. There are options:

• The Santi heated vest. This is the least expensive option, and would go under the same undersuit I use today or maybe under a thinner one that would normally be for spring/summer/fall usage.
• The Santi heated "Flex 2.0" undersuit, which is a thin undersuit with heating, more expensive than the vest but less so than the BZ400. This would presumably replace other undersuits, I doubt I'd be able to fit it underneath any of my existing ones, so question is, would it be enough?
• The heated BZ400, which is the most expensive, the warmest, and the bulkiest... Probably about as bulky as my current setup?

(Either of these could/would be combined with the heated gloves.)

So, are there cold water divers using the Flex undersuit? How do you combine it with other stuff and how bulky does it end up being?

Is it better to just bite the bullet and go with the BZ400, hoping to reduce bulk by having fewer layers underneath?

Or does it make more sense to go with just the vest and gloves and use a modular layers-over-layers approach to fine-tune?

This is for rec-only NDL diving, so calling a dive due to cold or heating failure is fine. No deco anticipated. Price is a factor, but I also need a battery canister and suit passthrough so the whole thing will end up expensive as hell anyway, so the price difference between the options isn't necessarily decisive.

 

[broncobowsher]

To close the loop...
I did get the flex 2.0 undersuit. Just in time for summer.
The 2.0 is very reminiscent of my 4th Element Halo in overall feel. Just for a reference point. It is a bit bulkier than I was expecting, but good dense bulk and not light fluffy bulk.
Now that things are cooling off I need to get out and get it weighted and do a few dives in it. Wow the year is blowing by fast.

 

[lermontov]

I feel this didn't really get discussed as exhaustively as I'd have hoped. I'm in Sweden and considering my first heated setup for the winter. The cold period diving here in southern Sweden is generally around 2-8 ℃ (35-46 ℉) with occasional colder dives, but they tend not to be too long. Air temperature is usually around the same as the water temp, windy and damp. There may be occasional dives in 0℃/freezing water and/or ice dives, but it's not the norm.

Currently, I'm using a Waterproof "Warmtec HD" 300g undersuit, plus a layer or two of merino and fleece underneath as required, dry gloves with decent liners. It's... adequate, I guess, mostly, but never really comfortable. It gets really bulky, and quite sweaty while setting up before hitting the water, despite being cold outside. In the water I inevitably get cold, first hands and feet and then the body, often to the point of shivering at the 45-50 min mark and calling the dive due to cold.

So I'm looking to a) increase warmth and hopefully b) decrease bulkiness. There are options:

• The Santi heated vest. This is the least expensive option, and would go under the same undersuit I use today or maybe under a thinner one that would normally be for spring/summer/fall usage.
• The Santi heated "Flex 2.0" undersuit, which is a thin undersuit with heating, more expensive than the vest but less so than the BZ400. This would presumably replace other undersuits, I doubt I'd be able to fit it underneath any of my existing ones, so question is, would it be enough?
• The heated BZ400, which is the most expensive, the warmest, and the bulkiest... Probably about as bulky as my current setup?

(Either of these could/would be combined with the heated gloves.)

So, are there cold water divers using the Flex undersuit? How do you combine it with other stuff and how bulky does it end up being?

Is it better to just bite the bullet and go with the BZ400, hoping to reduce bulk by having fewer layers underneath?

Or does it make more sense to go with just the vest and gloves and use a modular layers-over-layers approach to fine-tune?

This is for rec-only NDL diving, so calling a dive due to cold or heating failure is fine. No deco anticipated. Price is a factor, but I also need a battery canister and suit passthrough so the whole thing will end up expensive as hell anyway, so the price difference between the options isn't necessarily decisive.

Its hard to recommend an undergarment based on your thermal tolerance, so i can only suggest for me.
if your doing dives for an hour or 70 min and your moving around a fair bit then the vest may be suitable -if your down longer or periods of stationary diving (say reels or camera) then a flex 2 is better - they are warm even without the heater battery they are a bit fiddly and need looking after. i diver in water around 12º and 8º in winter and it works great
I have a mares vest but they not really that great -i have a flex 2 which i like and the heating is great on deco stops
if your dry suit is tight then the flex or bz may be too tight -when i got my latest dry suit i got it made bigger to accomadate the extra bull and its fine
its is recommended to use an undergarment over the skin so i use a merino top and bottom

 

[LeeIom]

Its hard to recommend an undergarment based on your thermal tolerance, so i can only suggest for me.
if your doing dives for an hour or 70 min and your moving around a fair bit then the vest may be suitable -if your down longer or periods of stationary diving (say reels or camera) then a flex 2 is better - they are warm even without the heater battery they are a bit fiddly and need looking after. i diver in water around 12º and 8º in winter and it works great
I have a mares vest but they not really that great -i have a flex 2 which i like and the heating is great on deco stops
if your dry suit is tight then the flex or bz may be too tight -when i got my latest dry suit i got it made bigger to accomadate the extra bull and its fine
its is recommended to use an undergarment over the skin so i use a merino top and bottom

Sorry to jump on a old post how much extra lead did you need for the vest without battery pack I’m looking into a couple of options

Cheers lee

 

[bravokiloromeo]

To close the loop...
I did get the flex 2.0 undersuit. Just in time for summer.
The 2.0 is very reminiscent of my 4th Element Halo in overall feel. Just for a reference point. It is a bit bulkier than I was expecting, but good dense bulk and not light fluffy bulk.
Now that things are cooling off I need to get out and get it weighted and do a few dives in it. Wow the year is blowing by fast.

Curious how the 2.0 is working for you! My BZ200 is great for recreational dives in SoCal but have been debating picking up a Flex 2.0 for the heating in the event I start doing longer/tech dives in the near future.

 

[lermontov]

Sorry to jump on a old post how much extra lead did you need for the vest without battery pack I’m looking into a couple of options

Cheers lee

i cant recall exactly but id guess 1 kg -but another thing to consider is that the undergarments warmth is based a lot on loft and the heated a suit is best with a bit more air in the dry suit so you may need bit more weight to compensate

 

[bravokiloromeo]

i cant recall exactly but id guess 1 kg -but another thing to consider is that the undergarments warmth is based a lot on loft and the heated a suit is best with a bit more air in the dry suit so you may need bit more weight to compensate

For the Santi vest, I typically add 1-2 lbs and that's enough to counter it. It's not massively buoyant but will trap some additional air.