Santi Dry Suit Options

[mulla]

Hi All,

Been shopping around a bit for a dry suit and trying to price one up, came across this form for a Santi E.Space that I'm interested in. Some of the options in there I'm not very sure of even after some extensive google search.

The form I'm referring to is:
http://www.santiusa.com/santi/images/stories/forms/santi-order-drysuit03.pdf

Question 1:
Wrist Seals, what's the difference between a "Bell Shaped HD" and a "Cone Shaped" seal?

Question 2:
There seemed to be a few options in boots? What's the advantages of each? Can I go for the socks and use my normal "wet boots"? Does this mean I need bigger boots / fins? Below I have listed the boot options.

Standard Neoprene Boots
Flex Sole Boots
Neoprene Socks
Rock Boots

The coldest I'll be diving in would be roughly 10C of water temp


Thanks heaps in advance.

 

[OkiMike]

Over here, we refer to them as bottleneck HD seals, but essentially they are a thick seal that resembles the curvature and neck portion of a wine bottle. Typically, they are a one-sized fits all, more resistant to damage/tearing, and hence longer-lasting seal. The cone-shaped, on the other hand, are thin latex in a wedge shape similar to an ice cream cone. The wide end is attached to the suit and the thin end is what your wrist/hand passes through and is trimmable to suit your wrist size. They offer a tighter/custom fit but are more prone to tearing and cuts and, in general, wear out faster than the thick high density (HD) option. (Addition: I've had both and like both).

As for boots, I recommend the flex-sole boots (the same that come standard on the E.Lite suit). They are integrated right into the suit and only require you to change thickness of socks depending on the temps you dive. In addition, they are sturdy and allow you to rotate/roll your ankles freely which makes certain fin kicks easy.

As for other details, take a hint from the high-end E.Lite suit and go with the latex/insulation option for your neck seal (warmer and more comfortable), and a front zipper so you can get in and out of your suit yourself. As for the knee pads, they are extremely rigid and unless you're on your knees welding stuff underwater, I would leave them out.

The name patch is a nice touch, but definitely go with the large explorer pockets, and the Halcyon P-valve.

If you're interested in trying dry gloves, don't go for the options listed on the order sheet. Instead ask them to get you the Si-Tech Quick Glove System (Part #60940) which includes both the sleeve-side ring mechanism as well as the glove-side system. Then go down to the hardware stare and by some HD latex gloves for $10. Or, if you prefer, hold off on getting that (since you can add it at any time) and look around on various forums for reviews on various glove systems. Some people love Si-Tech Quick Glove system while others hate it. Having come from a DUI suit with the ZipSeals, I much prefer the DUI version, but since that's not available on a Santi you'll have more options and options that are far cheaper than DUIs, but ultimately different and your results may vary. I'm still experimenting with various glove styles and thicknesses from the hardware store to go with my Si-Tech system, but in general, when I've assembled everything correctly, it's fairly nice and super inexpensive.

As for inflation/exhaust valves...each person has a preference, and mine is for Si-Tech on both (with the intake being swivel). Make sure to have the intake placed on the chest just under the neck (which should be standard), and the exhaust to be placed on the upper left arm, between the bicep and the shoulder, though closer to the shoulder.

Happy ordering. I think you'll love your suit.

 

[mulla]

Thank you for the very detailed explanation. Answers all my questions plus more!

 

[OkiMike]

I forgot to comment on the actual size of the boots. I've found that the Flex Sole boots run bigger than my wetsuit, neoprene, felt-bottom boots. Normally I wear an XL size ScubaPro JetFin and, while it still fits, it can get cramped when wearing thinsulate socks in cold water with the drysuit. As such, I'm looking at getting a second set of fins for use with the drysuit. The Hollis F1 (size XL) looks to be a perfect upgrade size-wise and more or less identical to the SB JetFin (size XL).

 

[mulla]

Ah, I have read about drysuit boots being slightly bigger but forgot about it in all the excitement.

So if you're wearing standard "street" socks with the Flex Sole boots you can fit into your XL JetFin? What size Flex Sole boots you have on your suit? Guess you can't remember if it was from ages ago.

I have exactly the same size JetFins as you do, didn't really want to have to get new fins... well more like I'll be broke for a while after getting this suit!

Thanks once again for the follow up.

 

[OkiMike]

It depends on how roomy the fins are for you now with regular neoprene boots. What makes the fins cramped with the FlexSoles is that the Santi boots are high-profile (taller and wider than plain neoprene), though mostly in the toe area, which is precisely where ScubaPro's JetFins get narrow. That said they are very well built and I prefer them by far to the thinner DUI "Turbo Soles" which are actually smaller than your normal neoprene boots and cause your foot to "swim" in the XL JetFin.

As with everything, the tightness/looseness will depend on your undersock. With military moisture-wicking boot socks (the thick black kind), I'm comfortable wearing the Santi FlexSoles in my JetFins. With 200gram or more thinsulate sock "booties" on, even my DUI TurboSoles were cramped which means that the Santi is likely to be at least as much so.

In the scheme of things, new fins are less than $100--well worth it to fully enjoy your drysuit if your feet feel cramped.

 

[mulla]

Thanks once again for the explanation to a newbie.

I suppose the drysuit boot is replaceable by the dive shop when worn out? I know all the neck / wrist seals are.

One last off topic question, I didn't think you would need a dry suit in Okinawa?

Thanks once again for all the detailed explanations. I'll go and prepare all the details / measurements and wait for a quote.

 

[OkiMike]

The flexsoles are sewn/stitched/taped on (or some combination). I'm sure there are people out there who can do immaculate drysuit repair work and if the boots need replacement you could seek them out. But the boots themselves are excellent. In fact, I know of at least two people who switched from DUI to Santi just because of the Flex Soles alone. They're really top notch!

In Okinawa, it does indeed get hot in the summer months (30C+ on land and 28C in the water), but in the fall/winter/spring it drops to between 11C~20C on land and 20C in the water. I now own several undergarments usable in all different temperature ranges, and find that I like the feeling of "diving dry", hence I try to do it as often as possible until the point in the season in which kitting up on land becomes unbearable.

 

[mulla]

Doing a bit more reading online and am a little worried about integrated boots on drysuits. I do a fair bit of shore / rock entry dives here and have a feeling that replacing integrated boots say even on a yearly or twice yearly basis is going to be expensive and troublesome.

Is it possible to simply get integrated "Neoprene Socks" and wear my wetsuit boots over them? I gather the Neoprene Socks is "waterproof" as well else it doesn't make sense I guess. Sorry for the newbie questions, you've been most helpful in this.

Oh and 20C water is considered warm here If it was only 20C all year round I'd be happy! I can never imagine what it's like to have 28C water... maybe I should fill the bath tub and have a dive there.

 

[OkiMike]

I've never personally dove any explicitly neoprene sock-type or the RockBoot style drysuits (those with a separate latex seal at the ankles). The Santi FlexSoles are setup in such a way as to be durable like a separate shoe, but connected so that there are no seals to break and so that warm undergarments can be worn. It's a thick, hard rubber sole with protection all around and even some on top.

Comparatively, the DUI TurboSoles are more like a neoprene sock but with a simple flat tread glued on to the bottom of the sock. Over time, the DUI turbo sole I had worked its way loose from around the sole and since there was no protection around it, walking on the reef caused me to get neoprene torn away from the tip of the toe area. I've seen a recent cave version of the DUI turbo sole that is more inline with what Santi is offering, but generally speaking, the Santi offering is like a standalone flyfisherman's boot attached with neoprene and is extremely dry and comfortable. Unlike the DUI, I'd feel comfortable hiking in this, on rocks, reef, or whatever.

To be honest, most people I've ever met have had the FlexSole (or other brands' equivalents) option, the exception perhaps being teachers who get the neoprene sock version (which is cheaper) on all the drysuits they buy for their students. This helps them service a wider variety of students with different foot sizes than a harder boot, but on their own drysuit, they are sure to get a properly fitting suit with properly fitting integrated boots.

You've mentioned the temps you are looking to dive, and I just can't imagine doing that in anything that wouldn't be a custom fit and let me wear appropriately warm undergarments down to my toes. I'm sure there are people out there who do that, but you'll have to ask them. As for heavy use, I can't imagine any terrain you could throw at these Santi boots that would hurt them.

Hope this is helpful.