Same Regulator Set for Doubles and Sidemount?

[kHz]

Hi, Guys!

I am new into recreational sidemount diving and I also plan to train with backmount doubles within a year. I was wondering if I can just get a set of regulators and a few hoses and gauges for both.

Here are my needs:
1) Icy water diving. I am currently based in Ontario, so cold water & ice diving constantly. Also plan to dive in the arctic and go on liveaboard in the antarctic within the next three years. Doubles can be less of a trouble in ice diving. (Less concerns about frozen first stage.)
2) Strongly prefer to not own tanks. I am petite (about 5'4 or 163cm & low BMI), so I might need to get doubles adjusted to my size if I want to regularly dive doubles. Sidemount might be more forgiving on the sizing.
3) Cave diving in Florida. Plan to train for cave diving within the next three years, and sidemount is probably better for that.
4) Budget & storage space limit. Strongly prefer to own less gear if possible.

It might be better to just own one regulator set that can fit all my needs. So first, is that possible? And second, which model of regulator would you recommend? Past posts recommended the APEKS MTX-RC and Scubapro MK19.

 

[Marie13]

You can use the same set of regs no problem. It might get a bit annoying changing hoses around if you were diving doubles and SM in the same trip, but other than that…

Others have different opinions, but I prefer first stages with rotating turrets and a fifth port on the bottom of the first stage. Makes hose routing nicer. Something like Apeks XTX50 with DST first stages fits the bill nicely. They’re workhorse regs, although not cheap. I used them for both SM and doubles. I used my Apeks down to 38F for ice diving without issues.

 

[Beau Holden]

You can use the same set of regs just fine. However, you are going to set yourself up for some frustrating days, as Marie13 explained about hose routing and different hoses. In short you are going to pretty much end up with four different sets of hoses and a box full of o-rings, going from backmount to sidemount. I dive exclusively backmount. I am not going into the reason(s) for my choice and start a war over choices. If I do decide to go sidemount, then the bands and SS BP, harness, wings, etc., go on sale. If want to go back and forth, then plan on spending several $1,000s on gear or be frustrated trying to rent gear that does not fit and/or meets the mission needs.

I dive Dive Rite regs and have done so the last 14 years or so. The same original set with 4 or 5 sets added through the years, for spares, stages and such. Now these are same the model for the 1st and 2nd stages, with environmental kits installed on my right and left posts (that can be changed out any time). Had those down to 130-140 and 34-36F and never had a free flow or any other issue. However, I do service them myself.

You have a very aggressive plan and I hope the best for you.

 

[Marie13]

And as for NOT owning tanks, you may have to change your mind on that. I’m 5’5”. I use LP85s and LP50s. The 85s are for cave diving and deeper OW stuff. The 50s are for fun sow stuff and I’m going to be using them for CCR bailout (training starts in several weeks).

Are doubles available for rent in your are?

If you find out that a certain size of doubles are better for your body size, and you can’t rent them, you are going to have to buy.

Steels are for cold water at home. Aluminums are for warm water diving. You need too much weight with them for cold water, drysuit diving.

 

[kHz]

And as for NOT owning tanks, you may have to change your mind on that. I’m 5’5”. I use LP85s and LP50s. The 85s are for cave diving and deeper OW stuff. The 50s are for fun sow stuff and I’m going to be using them for CCR bailout (training starts in several weeks).

Are doubles available for rent in your are?

If you find out that a certain size of doubles are better for your body size, and you can’t rent them, you are going to have to buy.

Steels are for cold water at home. Aluminums are for warm water diving. You need too much weight with them for cold water, drysuit diving.

Yeah, I can get rental doubles from a shop within acceptable travel distance. Haven't checked what size they offer or would fit me though.

But you are right, owning my own tanks will potentially give me better dives and reduce the hassle of going to that particular shop to get my gas refills.

 

[Marie13]

Yeah, I can get rental doubles from a shop within acceptable travel distance. Haven't checked what size they offer or would fit me though.

But you are right, owning my own tanks will potentially give me better dives and reduce the hassle of going to that particular shop to get my gas refills.

Forgot to mention on regs: I recently sold my Apeks and have only Dive Rite now. I did that to consolidate to one mfg for servicing.

DR regs are good regs and don’t cost nearly as much as Apeks. Know plenty of people who regularly ice dive with them. Dan’s Dive Shop is a DR dealer.

 

[grantctobin]

You need too much weight with them for cold water, drysuit diving.

…except at her size, she doesn’t need nearly the weight that someone of two of three times her BMI might need. Ignoring gas matching and assuming her dive partners are in a similar RMV range, I think solution to this is a pair of AL80s or a pair of 10L or 12L. The difficulty with renting either type of set for sidemount use is the unlikelihood of modular valves. On the upside, there are women of similar body stature, such as Lauren Wilson, running around High Springs in 104s and stages, so body size really isn’t a worry.

Things to think about:
-assuming they were set up properly to begin with, there’s very little (no) body size adjustment needed to doubles when you rent them
-If you’re far more competent in sidemount than in backmount, cave training in sidemount might be a better choice. I stand by it not being a better choice for most people. This is at least in part because most sidemount instructors are bad at sidemount and need remedial education, let alone teaching it themselves.
-It’s unlikely sidemount is as easily to accommodate on those Antarctic cruises than backmount. In fact, the durations and depths on those cruises tend to be quite limited. Most are on a single cylinder.
-A set of doubles can be converted into sidemount should you ever decide to go down that path. This way, you have modular valves from the get go.


TLR a set of MK19/G260 or MK19/G250 etc would all be more than appropriate for what you’re doing. At your size, you can probably get away with the same length backup reg hoses for both configurations. As such, you’d probably only keep two extra inflator hoses and whatever HP solution you use to switch between backmount doubles and sidemount setups.

 

[formernuke]

Yeah, I can get rental doubles from a shop within acceptable travel distance. Haven't checked what size they offer or would fit me though.

But you are right, owning my own tanks will potentially give me better dives and reduce the hassle of going to that particular shop to get my gas refills.

Careful, tanks tend to breed once in a warm home.

I have very limited sidemount experience. With that said I've done some. You can use the same regs, but as others have said you will be constantly moving and changing hoses around which is annoying and every time you change them you risk damaging orings and leaks.

As for types, shrug I haven't tried every option so I won't recommend one brand over another. Plus there are a lot of factors.

You mention cave, I don't do cave but anytime you mention tech or cave the gear required skyrockets.

 

[tbone1004]

Hi, Guys!

I am new into recreational sidemount diving and I also plan to train with backmount doubles within a year. I was wondering if I can just get a set of regulators and a few hoses and gauges for both.

Here are my needs:
1) Icy water diving. I am currently based in Ontario, so cold water & ice diving constantly. Also plan to dive in the arctic and go on liveaboard in the antarctic within the next three years. Doubles can be less of a trouble in ice diving. (Less concerns about frozen first stage.)
2) Strongly prefer to not own tanks. I am petite (about 5'4 or 163cm & low BMI), so I might need to get doubles adjusted to my size if I want to regularly dive doubles. Sidemount might be more forgiving on the sizing.
3) Cave diving in Florida. Plan to train for cave diving within the next three years, and sidemount is probably better for that.
4) Budget & storage space limit. Strongly prefer to own less gear if possible.

It might be better to just own one regulator set that can fit all my needs. So first, is that possible? And second, which model of regulator would you recommend? Past posts recommended the APEKS MTX-RC and Scubapro MK19.

No problem using the same regulators. You'll need separate sets of inflator hoses, short regulator hose, and SPG's. Move some port plugs and move some hoses around and you'll be good to go. It is sufficiently annoying that many people get dedicated regulators but it truly only takes about 5 minutes to do it properly.

2-Doubles are typically not adjusted to size. There are some very well respected very tiny women diving full size double 104's in cave country and their 104's are configured exactly the same as the guys built like polar bears. Also @grantctobin who posted above is a mighty midget and his doubles are exactly the same as mine. Our backplates and harnesses are wildly different, but the doubles themselves are standard DIR style doubles.

3-doubles are quite fine for Florida cave diving and we are seeing a bit of a resurgence in doubles usage over the last couple of years. I have been sidemount cave diving for well over a decade but I these days I have switched to using sidemount as a tool these days.

4-you'll get a second set of regulators eventually for backups but there is surprisingly little space savings by keeping the hoses/spg's only vs a full regulator set.

Regulators are basically whatever is convenient for you to have serviced and maintained. I don't think Apeks or Scubapro represent a good value in regulators as they are neither the highest quality or performing regulator nor the lowest cost *actually some of the highest cost regulators out there* which makes them an exceedingly bad purchase from a value perspective. They're perfectly fine regulators and if if you have a good local dive shop that only sells them then you won't be disappointed but you can get both higher quality and better performing regulators for less money that offer better warranties and the ability to self-service. I personally have started switching most of my regulators over to Deep 6 Signature though I will never get rid of my Poseidon regulators, I have gotten rid of all of my Scubapro and Apeks regulators.

 

[Wibble]

Apeks DSTs with 5th port adapter or ScubaPro mk25's both make excellent dual-purpose regs.

Obviously changing from one mode to another will require the SPG's to be fitted on short 15cm/6" hoses. Also you'll need to change the drysuit and wing inflate hoses to shorter ones for sidemount. About 22cm/9" hoses for sidemount and the longer 56cm/22" inflator hose with the same or longer for the drysuit.

I kept my ear to the ground for second-hand regulators which periodically come up. Friends let me know if there's something on facebook (don't have an account) as there's various dive gear for sale forums(?).

Ended up with using a pair of ScubaPro mk25s for the sidemount rig. Nice layout.

For backmount twinset/doubles I use a pair of Apeks Tec3s. Now using those for bailouts as they're perfect for them. I would use a pair of Apeks DS4s for backmount if I was to dive twinsets again.

For a single rig, the DSTs work if you've the right length of hose for the wing inflate, otherwise DS4s

A benefit of using all Apeks is that Tec3, DST and DS4 regulators all use the same service kits. They're also relatively cheap to buy.

Like cylinders, your regulators begin to breed in your man-shed.