Safety Stops and Overhead Environments

[AndyM]

I went on my first boat dives this weekend in Key Largo.

First of all, WAY COOL! Reef sharks, nurse sharks, and rays beat the snot out of muddy Michigan lake bottoms. I was incredibly impressed with the professionalism of the dive outfit we dove with. We were treated very well and felt very safe. They will remain nameless because of my question:

There were two things that they did that violated what I thought were standard safety procedures:

1. We were told not to take a three minute safety stop. There was no line and so it would have been difficult, and our deepest dive was 43ft.

2. We were encouraged to swim through Fire Coral Cave. Many of you with Keys experience know what I'm talking about - it's a swim through of about 30ft and is probably 5-6ft tall. In Open Water training we are told to NEVER enter an overhead environment. As far as the people that I talked to we were all just Open Water divers, and none of us had cavern or cave certs. We were told that it was optional, and that we could just follow the DM over.

Are these things standard? This was my first boat dive so I have nothing to compare it to. Just wanted your input.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

1. We were told not to take a three minute safety stop. There was no line and so it would have been difficult, and our deepest dive was 43ft.

What reason did the boat op/crew give for recommending against doing a safety stop? Were there strong currents in the area? What would they have said to a looooooong slow ascent? I have never been on a dive boat that said specifically NOT to do a safety stop. If currents are present, you can deploy a SMB during the safety stop. In some places where drift diving is common, the DM shoots a SMB during the safety stop and everyone else just hangs out by him.

With regard to doing the swim-through, it's good that they gave divers the option to not do it, i.e., go around or over the top. Even if divers are not in an OOA situation, they can still get hurt by doing swim-throughs. In Cozumel, we had two novice divers who got their heads sliced up on the reef by attempting the swim-throughs despite having poor buoyancy control.

Take control of your own safety wherever/whenever you dive. This means never do anything that you're not comfortable with. Sometimes novice divers fall into the trap of extending the "trust me" attitude of their OW training to a boat dive. Big mistake IMO.

Have fun and dive safe.

 

[rstofer]

I went on my first boat dives this weekend in Key Largo.

First of all, WAY COOL! Reef sharks, nurse sharks, and rays beat the snot out of muddy Michigan lake bottoms. I was incredibly impressed with the professionalism of the dive outfit we dove with. We were treated very well and felt very safe. They will remain nameless because of my question:

There were two things that they did that violated what I thought were standard safety procedures:

1. We were told not to take a three minute safety stop. There was no line and so it would have been difficult, and our deepest dive was 43ft.

That's pretty shallow. What was your bottom time? Remember, from the NAUI tables, for a 50' dive (round up), a stop isn't required unless the time exceeds 80 minutes. From the PADI tables, a stop isn't required unless the dive exceeds 63 minutes. That's a long time for a single tank recreational dive. And we rounded up! If the average was 40' of less the times would be 130/104 minutes respectively.

That said, safety stops are a good thing. But the concept of no decompression recreational diving is that you never get into a situation where a safety stop is required. You should 'know before you go' how deep the dive will be and you should have marked on your slate the NDL for each depth.

If the tables for your organization or your dive computer said a stop was required, you should make it. It's your life... Otherwise, they charter operators are probably a good source of information.

2. We were encouraged to swim through Fire Coral Cave. Many of you with Keys experience know what I'm talking about - it's a swim through of about 30ft and is probably 5-6ft tall. In Open Water training we are told to NEVER enter an overhead environment. As far as the people that I talked to we were all just Open Water divers, and none of us had cavern or cave certs. We were told that it was optional, and that we could just follow the DM over.

Are these things standard? This was my first boat dive so I have nothing to compare it to. Just wanted your input.

I guess if I could see through the cave, I might dive it. I might also dive it if a whole bunch of people were doing it and I could see them coming out the other end. These charter dives are usually pretty conservative and they are unlikely to tell people to dive a cavern in which a bunch of people have died. A swim through is a whole lot different than a cave where the only way out is back through the way in. And a 30' run isn't a long way to swim in either direction. It's probably pretty hard to get lost.

Apparently these things are 'standard' where you are diving. I wouldn't worry about it.

Richard

 

[Rick Inman]

1. We were told not to take a three minute safety stop. There was no line and so it would have been difficult, and our deepest dive was 43ft.

My guess is that their experience with OW divers is that they are unable to do a blue-water hang at 15' for 3 mins, so, with the shallow dive, they just avoid the potential issues.

I think i would have told them, ok, I would not do a safety stop, but I will ascend real slow.

2. We were encouraged to swim through Fire Coral Cave. Many of you with Keys experience know what I'm talking about - it's a swim through of about 30ft and is probably 5-6ft tall. In Open Water training we are told to NEVER enter an overhead environment. As far as the people that I talked to we were all just Open Water divers, and none of us had cavern or cave certs. We were told that it was optional, and that we could just follow the DM over.

Is a 30' swim-through an overhead environment? No it is not. Not until something goes wrong, like an OOA or something. DM's regularly play the odds that nothing will go wrong, and they drag divers through "swim-throughs" like this and like the Devil's Throat in Coz every day - and usually they win. Which would be little comfort to the BOW guy in the middle of the group who goes OOG. But many of the divers who have made these dives successfully (like I did) will post that because they made it through ok, it must be safe.

Like others have said, IMO, you should look at your training and assess your ability and comfort level on every dive and base your decisions on that rather than what the DM says.

 

[robint]

First, welcome to the great big Ocean! Cool, isn't it?

Safety stops are pretty standard but not mandatory, especially that shallow. I do a safety stop on every dive, no matter how long, unless it is 30' deep or less the whole dive. Regardless of depth though, slow ascent is most essential! Some people leave the 15' mark and just pop to the surface. :shocked2: Not me, I linger for about a minute if I can.

Overhead environment is a bit different. Could you see an exit at all? Or were you just following into a dark environment? Since it wasn't mandatory, you didn't have to do it if you didn't feel safe. (I have, unforturnately, seen DMs lead people into wrecks and caves for which they had no training and could have been a problem.) I have also seen newbies throw fits over doing some short, easy swimthroughs where the diver is never out of sight of "light". Of course many of those newbies were only certified OW, so max depth rule was 60' and you bet not one of them complained when the DM led them deeper!

As far as a descent line - most boats don't have them so get used to doing the safety stop without it. Liveaboards always have a hang bar or something like that, but most day boats do not.

robin

 

[tiggrr]

Like others have said, IMO, you should look at your training and assess your ability and comfort level on every dive and base your decisions on that rather than what the DM says.

What he said.....^^^

 

[shark_tamer]

Hi AndyM,

Firts, welcome to the wonderfull world of ocean diving !!!

It is surely different from lake diving.

1. We were told not to take a three minute safety stop. There was no line and so it would have been difficult, and our deepest dive was 43ft.

Personally, I do a safety stop on almost all my dives. Those I don't are multilevel dives, and the last portion of the dive is so shallow that my computer starts calculating as if I was in a safety stop. Otherwise, it is a must for me.

As for the " no line to hold on " portion of your post, you'd better get used to doing a safety stop without holding on to a line ... I'd say that in 95% of my Caribbean dives, there was no line to hold on to while doing the safety stop. Not a easy thing to do at first, but you'll get the hang of it.

I'll even add : At the end of a dive, if you feel that you should be doing a safety stop, just signal your buddy AND the DM in charge of the dive and go ahead with your safety stop. I don't think anybody would think less of you if you do so.

 

[sibermike7]

When I was certified 25 years ago, they (PADI and NAUI) never even discussed safety stops when diving in shallow water (43 feet would be shallow). If you were under the NDL, simply ascend slowly.

Like has been said, holding at 15 feet for novices divers without any support gear is difficult. My guess is that the folks running the boat knew how long the dive was going to be and knew you would be safe. It may have been better to simply have communicated that, if that was the case. "Well, folks, we know how hard it is for new divers to hold at 15 ' for a safety stop, so don't worry about it. You are shallow enough and you tanks aren't full, so you'll be back in about 30 minutes. Therefore, a safety stop is not an absolute necessity."

As far as the cave goes, like was said, they probably haven't lost too many divers there! Hey, they gave you a choice!

Imagine the cussing and whining back on board if they had told you, "Sorry folks, if you haven't paid for and passed all the PADI caving and/or wreck courses, you can't swim through this oh-so-awesome tunnel." They gave you a choice; seems fair to me!

Just remember, only YOU are ultimately responsible for YOU. Enjoy diving, but use your noggin!

 

[OH-JJ]

Should an OW diver do a swim through? of course not. the scuba police will get you

Now then I assume that it is the typical 5-30 foot swim through, and since you are from MI you have dove in the quarries, and have swam through the school buses and such. I see no difference (except for the coral,) between a swim through in the ocean and going through a bus.


Saftey stop.... it is a very good habit to get into.
However if your skills are poor, you may have trouble holding a 15 foot stop in moderate seas. I would recommend working with shooting a bag with a reel or spool. and Work on holding 20, 15, 10, and 5 foot stops. if you can do that in the quarry or the lake then you can do it in the ocean.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

I have never been told not to do a 3 min safety stop, I know its not required etc... just wonder why they said not to do one?

The swim throughs are a matter of choice. I have done a few and wasn't really to impressed with what is inside Vs the surrounding area.