Safety lapse @ Amigos del Mar, Ambergris, Belize

[tpg]

I was alone with DM on a local reef dive and DM was upset to have to take me as the dive shop screwed up the scheduling with other divers that day.
Anyway, we're on the boat at the reef site and before getting in the water I checked my equipment and then as I start checking the DM's equipment (he's my buddy) he gets pissed at me, indicating no one touches his equipment. As I refused to dive if I couldn't check his gear he then let me do a pre-dive buddy check. The purge on his octopus was not working. I decided to still do the dive as we were just going to 20m in a technically easy dive.

When returning to the shop I talked to the owner about what happened and was told the DM wasn't making enough money as he dove just with me. Owner insisted his DM had all the rights in the world NOT to have his equipment touched by anyone if that was what he wanted. I was a little shocked by the attitude and answer of the owner, especially when I indicated they should look into that octopus purge that isn't working. 'Not possible it isn't working, otherwise it'd be free-flowing' was the answer.

Hopefully this was an isolated incident because they were not happy with the scheduling that day but always check your buddy's gear (and your own of course) before going in the water, especially with Amigos del Mar. While I do not recommend them they still are the biggest operator on that caye.

I realize an octopus purge not working is not a big deal in itself but accidents happen when too many small things like this occur simultaneously. What worried me was their whole approach to safe diving.

 

[fisheater]

I was alone with DM on a local reef dive and DM was upset to have to take me as the dive shop screwed up the scheduling with other divers that day.
Anyway, we're on the boat at the reef site and before getting in the water I checked my equipment and then as I start checking the DM's equipment (he's my buddy) he gets pissed at me, indicating no one touches his equipment. As I refused to dive if I couldn't check his gear he then let me do a pre-dive buddy check. The purge on his octopus was not working. I decided to still do the dive as we were just going to 20m in a technically easy dive.

When returning to the shop I talked to the owner about what happened and was told the DM wasn't making enough money as he dove just with me. Owner insisted his DM had all the rights in the world NOT to have his equipment touched by anyone if that was what he wanted. I was a little shocked by the attitude and answer of the owner, especially when I indicated they should look into that octopus purge that isn't working. 'Not possible it isn't working, otherwise it'd be free-flowing' was the answer.

Hopefully this was an isolated incident because they were not happy with the scheduling that day but always check your buddy's gear (and your own of course) before going in the water, especially with Amigos del Mar. While I do not recommend them they still are the biggest operator on that caye.

I realize an octopus purge not working is not a big deal in itself but accidents happen when too many small things like this occur simultaneously. What worried me was their whole approach to safe diving.

Not very "amigo-like" of that DM.

 

[lv2dive]

Did you ask the DM before you started checking his equipment? If someone I didn't know (well even someone I *did* know!) started touching my kit I'd be quite taken back. The DM is not alone in not wanting his equipment touched by someone else. While I commend you for wanting to do a buddy check - a lot of people don't... there ARE ways to do buddy checks without actively touching each other's gear.

To that end, I wouldn't agree that the DM not wanting you to touch his gear (and being backed up by the owner) meant the shop had an unsafe attitude. I am curious about the owner not wanting to research the purge not working on the octo but I am wondering if there could have been some sort of misunderstanding

Just another POV...

 

[tpg]

Yes I asked him and actually didn't touch anything. We were just about to get in the water and there were just the two of us on the boat + the boat captain, it wasn't the type of dive where there are plenty of people on-board. This was really what many divers do just before the dive. After checking TripAdvisor.com I actually found several other safety related incidents with that particular dive shop including issues with octopus not functioning. My real mistake was not to have checked the reviews prior to going to Belize. I thought this was an OK club as when I walked around checking the various shops that one had gear that was all well placed and organized.

 

[Gaz]

When you consider that ADM is the busiest dive shop probably in Belize and take thousands and thousands of divers diving each year and the fact that they have been around since 1993 as a well respected dive shop and are considered one of the best dive ops on the island I have to ask people to put things into perspective. I am not sure how many bad tripadvisor messages there are, but lets say there are 50 bad ones and they have taken literally thousands of divers diving who were happy for over 17 years that puts it into perspective.

As a past dive shop owner things happen when your a busy dive shop and its a case of not being able to keep everyone happy but if you can do a good job for 96% that great of course we would like a 100% record but that is not realistic.

Overall Amigos is a great outfit and thats something for me to say as I have had a very long history with those guys, as I tried breaking into the dive scene on Ambergris Caye way back in the early 90's .

Attitude can be a bit of an issue I will admit and I totally beleive you when you say the Dm had an attitude and the owner said the reason as he was not earning anything for having to take you diving as he has to have min 2 to make money so it was a service issue which the owner understood but its hard to get the actual guy to understand when he is not making any money. Of course thats not your problem and the owner should of probably bit the bullet and paid him the min to take you diving which is what I would of done.

But on the positive side they screwed up on scheduling and then sent you out on a PRIVATE boat thats pretty good service dont you think ? since that was a big loss for the dive shop to send a boat with 1 diver, if they were really bad they would of said sorry come back tommorow so credit where it is due.

As for the gear check I too would not appreciate anyone touching my gear now once we are kitted up ready to go in the water then we could do a check. On the octopus issue what exactly was not working as I am trying to think what could not of been not working with it, a reg is a very simple device so trying to guess how it was not working.

Im all up for dive shops doing there best for customers but the reality is sometimes things go wrong and that is just a part of running any business the best we can do is try to correct the mistake the best we can for the customer.

Gaz Cooper

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Just a couple of comments...

1. If a second stage has a purge button that doesn't work, I would call that a malfunctioning reg. FWIW, a freeflow isn't the only type of reg failure.
2. With a new-to-me buddy (doesn't matter if that person is a DM/instructor/cave diver/Jacques Cousteau's relative), I absolutely have a right to verify that his/her octo breathes OK. After all, that's my access to my backup gas supply. I will ask politely to breathe off of my new buddy's octo during pre-dive checks because I want to get a handle on the cracking pressure, whether it ceases flow appropriately, the volume of gas it delivers, and whether the purge button works. If I'm out-of-breath and I need to breathe off of the octo, I'm going to want to clear it by first pressing the purge button.

I've never had a buddy refuse my polite request to breathe off of his octo. If he did, that would be grounds to not dive with him.

FWIW, I wouldn't touch a new-to-me buddy's gear without first asking him for permission. That being said, there are several good reasons to familiarize myself with his equipment during pre-dive checks. I need to know how his weight releases work. I need to know where and how much lead weight he is carrying. I need to know how to get him out of his rig expeditiously in case he is unconscious or physically incapacitated. I also need to know that his octo releases readily from its octo holder.

As to whether the customer was wronged by the DM or the dive op in this instance, I have no idea. It would be good to hear Amigos del Mar respond and share the dive op's perspective of what happened. I hope that at least some of the dispute can be explained by a simple misunderstanding or lack of communication.

 

[tpg]

Gaz,

Fair points and as I said I hope it was a one-time incident. As far as the pre-dive check, we were geared up and literally seconds from going in the water. I just asked to check the octopus as I always do on every single dive while just making a quick eye check on the rest. I usually dive with my wife and we have our own equipment which we still double-check every time. When I dive with someone I don't know I'll pay at least as much attention as I don't know their equipment and this is independent of whether they done 50 dives or thousands. Anyway, that was just 1 experience of 1 diver - I continued diving with Ambergris divers afterwards - so you're right: things need to be put into perspective. Happy and safe diving.

 

[driftwood]

Gaz,

Amigos may be the biggest, but the nitrox tanks our dive shop got from them were substandard. Every single one was leaking air from the neck oring. Such an easy problem to fix tells me that attention to detail is not their long suit.

 

[Gaz]

Agreed

At the same time I could pull apart any dive operation that I went diving with, if I really wanted to as could any diver, the thing that elevates those tiny little problems is how the customer is treated, I am sure you guys just asked for the O ring to be changed or pulled one out of your spare kit as that is a very common problem, especially with tanks that get used several tiems a day 365 days a year. When i had my shops on the island i would be changing o rings from Amigos tanks (I rented them) on many occasions without a thought to it.

I dont want to be the one that is defending any dive shop for shoddy equipment but from experience when you have a dive shop equipment maintence is a continuous job and you are always servicing or replacing equipment and o rings almost on a daily base, even for guests dive equipment its part of the biz.

But I do agree that it seems they could pay more attention to detail especially where the Orings are concerned as that still seems ot be a problem for them by the sounds of it, and O rings are almost free LOL so theres no excuse

Gaz

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I'm a little confused about the o-ring to which driftwood was referring.

I just want to point out that there's a big difference between the o-ring found on the face of a yoke tank valve and the tank neck o-ring. The former can easily be changed regardless of tank pressure (so long as the valve is closed), whereas the latter requires draining the tank completely and removing/replacing the tank valve. A failed tank neck o-ring will allow gas to escape and eventually leave the tank empty.