S90 and G11 questions, plus general help

[cmaha76]

Hi, I’ve been reading all sorts of posts trying to compare the s90 to G11 and have a couple of questions that I either didn’t understand the answer on or couldn’t find… maybe I’m a little dense so please forgive any redundant questions. I plan on purchasing the camera and an Ikelite housing. I’ll try to break my questions out into sections.

Macro/Wide-angle:
I have seen many people mention that the s90 would be more versatile for wide angle or macro shooting. It looks like the s90 will simply accept threaded wide angle and macro lenses. The G11 will only accept a wide-angle conversion dome and needs an adapter to take macro lenses. So essentially they will both take macro lenses, but only the s90 will take a true wide-angle lens? Is a true wide angle-lens better than the wd-4 conversion dome offered by Ikelite? Is that the only advantage of the s90 with respect to wide-angle/macro or am I missing something else? From what I’m seeing you could switch all of these lenses wet and I’m sure I read somewhere that you couldn’t do that with the G11.

Strobe:
If I buy an Ikelite strobe I will be able to use TTL exposure for the G11 when in certain modes, but not manual mode. If I go S90 I will have to use some other sort of pairing such as EV offered with the Ikelite strobe or sTTL with an Inon. I get real fuzzy when I start reading all of this. If I go G11 would I use the TTL mode most of the time, I’m upgrading from a simple point and shoot and don’t understand how often I would switch to manual and how I would trigger the strobe in manual mode. So basically I would have TTL hardwired to the camera with G11 except for in manual mode and with S90 I would probably have the sTTL for all applications other than manual? Which of these is a better option? Does the TTL ability of the G11 make strobe performance better? Strobe recommendations for either camera & case are welcome, I’d like to spend 500-600 on a strobe and have the option to add a second later on.

Last question (for now):
I’m assuming that the f/2.0 for the s90 versus the f/2.8 for the G11 will lead to slightly faster performance by the s90 at 28mm? Is there any other advantage? Am I totally wrong on this assumption?

To sum it up, I’m upgrading from a point and shoot that I attach a sealife universal strobe to with a little fiber optic cable and a bunch of black duct tape, that I get ok strobe performance at best. When it fires I can get great pictures, but it doesn’t always work that well or provide the results I’d like. I’d like to get a better system that can shoot RAW but I’m not ready to jump into full blown DSLR rig. I tend to enjoy shooting macro more than wide-angle, but I like the option to shoot both. Which camera S90 or G11 would suit me best? What strobes would be good for my price range? Is there a setup out there that would provide a better option than these two cameras?

 

[dhaas]

Hi, I’ve been reading all sorts of posts trying to compare the s90 to G11 and have a couple of questions that I either didn’t understand the answer on or couldn’t find… maybe I’m a little dense so please forgive any redundant questions. I plan on purchasing the camera and an Ikelite housing. I’ll try to break my questions out into sections.

Macro/Wide-angle:
I have seen many people mention that the s90 would be more versatile for wide angle or macro shooting. It looks like the s90 will simply accept threaded wide angle and macro lenses. The G11 will only accept a wide-angle conversion dome and needs an adapter to take macro lenses. So essentially they will both take macro lenses, but only the s90 will take a true wide-angle lens? Is a true wide angle-lens better than the wd-4 conversion dome offered by Ikelite? Is that the only advantage of the s90 with respect to wide-angle/macro or am I missing something else? From what I’m seeing you could switch all of these lenses wet and I’m sure I read somewhere that you couldn’t do that with the G11.

Both cameras have a built in macro, but many users want to add external greater magnification macro lenses. You can do this with either a G11 or S90 and the correct adapter.

The S90 allows wider add on lens choices (Ikelite W20 and INON UWL100 model with 67mm threads) The WD-4 dome for a Canon G11 housing I think does fine for most folks. I've shot full frame divers with it on the Ikelite Canon G10 housing. Various opinions here may say you need wider but to each his own


Ikelite Canon G11 housing to Ikelite DS strobe (DS51 or DS160 and now DS161) will give you hot shoe connected TTL. Canon S90 would need to be tripped via an all AUTO sensor (like on Ikelite AF35) or INON fiber optic cord. Not sure is sTTL on INON strobes is as true to TTL like Ikelite AF35 is. See my pics in another thread taken with Canon S90 and AF35 units. As close to non wired TTL as you can get IMHO.


Strobe:
If I buy an Ikelite strobe I will be able to use TTL exposure for the G11 when in certain modes, but not manual mode. If I go S90 I will have to use some other sort of pairing such as EV offered with the Ikelite strobe or sTTL with an Inon. I get real fuzzy when I start reading all of this. If I go G11 would I use the TTL mode most of the time, I’m upgrading from a simple point and shoot and don’t understand how often I would switch to manual and how I would trigger the strobe in manual mode. So basically I would have TTL hardwired to the camera with G11 except for in manual mode and with S90 I would probably have the sTTL for all applications other than manual? Which of these is a better option? Does the TTL ability of the G11 make strobe performance better? Strobe recommendations for either camera & case are welcome, I’d like to spend 500-600 on a strobe and have the option to add a second later on.

Everyone wants to screw up their pics shooting Manual mode and have no clue on what shutter speed does versus f-stop and combined with strobe lit foreground. My recommendation is pick another mode (like Av or Tv) and let the camera and strobe to their thing. Has to be explained based on each person's system choice.

Last question (for now):
I’m assuming that the f/2.0 for the s90 versus the f/2.8 for the G11 will lead to slightly faster performance by the s90 at 28mm? Is there any other advantage? Am I totally wrong on this assumption?

Not in my opinion. Faster f-stop of 2.0 isn't going to make that big a deal in AF (autofocus) speed. UW in sport diving conditions practically no person is going to shoot at f2.8 or f2.0 .

To sum it up, I’m upgrading from a point and shoot that I attach a sealife universal strobe to with a little fiber optic cable and a bunch of black duct tape, that I get ok strobe performance at best. When it fires I can get great pictures, but it doesn’t always work that well or provide the results I’d like. I’d like to get a better system that can shoot RAW but I’m not ready to jump into full blown DSLR rig. I tend to enjoy shooting macro more than wide-angle, but I like the option to shoot both. Which camera S90 or G11 would suit me best? What strobes would be good for my price range? Is there a setup out there that would provide a better option than these two cameras?

RAW in my opinion is almost a waste of time on any little sensor camera but some folks will max out every bit of data if they are good at post processing. I prefer to get a good exposure shooting a lot and even Fine / Large JPEG files from either of these will make nice big prints.

I'm in your back yard (Ohio) so PM me or visit David Haas Underwater Photography

 

[Nemrod]

Hi, I’ve been reading all sorts of posts trying to compare the s90 to G11 and have a couple of questions that I either didn’t understand the answer on or couldn’t find… maybe I’m a little dense so please forgive any redundant questions. I plan on purchasing the camera and an Ikelite housing. I’ll try to break my questions out into sections.

Macro/Wide-angle:
I have seen many people mention that the s90 would be more versatile for wide angle or macro shooting. It looks like the s90 will simply accept threaded wide angle and macro lenses. The G11 will only accept a wide-angle conversion dome and needs an adapter to take macro lenses. So essentially they will both take macro lenses, but only the s90 will take a true wide-angle lens? Is a true wide angle-lens better than the wd-4 conversion dome offered by Ikelite? Is that the only advantage of the s90 with respect to wide-angle/macro or am I missing something else? From what I’m seeing you could switch all of these lenses wet and I’m sure I read somewhere that you couldn’t do that with the G11.

Strobe:
If I buy an Ikelite strobe I will be able to use TTL exposure for the G11 when in certain modes, but not manual mode. If I go S90 I will have to use some other sort of pairing such as EV offered with the Ikelite strobe or sTTL with an Inon. I get real fuzzy when I start reading all of this. If I go G11 would I use the TTL mode most of the time, I’m upgrading from a simple point and shoot and don’t understand how often I would switch to manual and how I would trigger the strobe in manual mode. So basically I would have TTL hardwired to the camera with G11 except for in manual mode and with S90 I would probably have the sTTL for all applications other than manual? Which of these is a better option? Does the TTL ability of the G11 make strobe performance better? Strobe recommendations for either camera & case are welcome, I’d like to spend 500-600 on a strobe and have the option to add a second later on.

Last question (for now):
I’m assuming that the f/2.0 for the s90 versus the f/2.8 for the G11 will lead to slightly faster performance by the s90 at 28mm? Is there any other advantage? Am I totally wrong on this assumption?

To sum it up, I’m upgrading from a point and shoot that I attach a sealife universal strobe to with a little fiber optic cable and a bunch of black duct tape, that I get ok strobe performance at best. When it fires I can get great pictures, but it doesn’t always work that well or provide the results I’d like. I’d like to get a better system that can shoot RAW but I’m not ready to jump into full blown DSLR rig. I tend to enjoy shooting macro more than wide-angle, but I like the option to shoot both. Which camera S90 or G11 would suit me best? What strobes would be good for my price range? Is there a setup out there that would provide a better option than these two cameras?

The G11 with FIX housing can accept a ultra wide angle port but it is not a wet mount. Both good and bad here. Frankly, a dry mount port sounds good to me. The Patima G11 housing also accepts some wide angle configurations but I think it requires a shorter primary port. Some of this, is as you can see, not easy to figure out. Thus people like dhass and Ryan (Reef) are invaluable at helping us amateurs out.

You will not use a wired strobe with the S90, you will want an Inon S/D2000 and never look back!!!!!!!

The S90 f2.0 lens is twice as fast as the G11 f2.8, is that minor, not to me!

Which is best, the S90 or G11, may the wars begin. I may change my mind, I went with the S90/FIX. I may regret that and want the G11 but if I had the G11 I would want the S90.

I bought this rig for amphibious use, splashing in kayaks, use on my boat and yes diving thus I preferred the smaller footprint S90. The FIX and Ikelite housings may offer greater lens versatility and wet mounting. The faster lens may help with my attempts to photograph the large, deep and dark, lol.

IMO, if you want a slr stand in for surface photography, get the G11, if you have a dSLR for surface use and want a compact/pocket travel rig, get the S90. They both have the same sensor and processing engine and both have RAW.

N

 

[sea_ledford]

IMO, if you want a slr stand in for surface photography, get the G11, if you have a dSLR for surface use and want a compact/pocket travel rig, get the S90. They both have the same sensor and processing engine and both have RAW.

N

The above sums it up best I think, but the G11 is about the best SLR substitute out there at the moment. I set one up in an Ike housing the other day for a student, and although you lose the TTL option when in manual mode, you have a 1 or 2 button push (can't remember which) path to controlling stobe power from within the camera! That give's you a ton of controll for lighting without having to futz with the stobe at all.

Regarding lens speed, remember that isn't how fast it focuses or moves, but how quickly it lets in light. Unless you are going for shots in dark places where you want a lot of ambient light, and just using the stobe for fill light (think cavern shots with light from skylights comming in), you probably aren't ever going to use the widest apperture (f2 or f2.8) anyway. And if you are, you'll be in manual mode for everything, 'cause the camera wont get it right on it's own.

And regarding manual mode, I don't understand everyones fear of it. I have maybe 5 different setting that I use for just about everything, and 2 of those cover 75% of the shots I take. Most of my exposure adjustments are changing strobe power. Now if a pod of dolphins, or big shiney fish come by auto is the only way to go... unless you are really good

Chris

 

[KhunNeal]

I went with the S90, originally I was going for the G11 but changed my mind along the way.
As a land camera, the S90 is great, and the F2.0 is really useful. I can take it with me everywhere, something I could not do with the G11.

As a plus my rig came out cheaper than if I went with a G11.

For scuba I got the Iklelite housing and a Inon S2000 strobe (with a home made optical cable). The S2000 works great in sTTL mode.
Underwater I shoot F4 to F8 for more depth of field, I don't have a macro lens (yet) maybe I'd shoot F2 then...but with a strobe I don't know why I would need to.

I shoot RAW when I am Underwater, much easier to correct white balance and fix up the image in Photoshop afterwards, but I have stopped using RAW on land, the S90 Jpeg is so good that using RAW and then editing gives nearly the same results (I still use RAW for HDR shots).

ps. I'm happy with the Ikelite, but it does not give access to the rear dial, something the FIX housing does. maybe I'll upgrade someday.