Removing All the Air from a Wing

[Vegan Shark]

Just curious, how easily can you remove ALL the air from your wing? Lately I've been frustrated with how long it takes to get air out of mine, even when I go slightly head up to help it vent. Often zero air will come out (not even a small bubble) when I try to vent, but I KNOW there's still air trapped in there. It's starting to make me dislike shallow dives.

When storing it in my dive bag, to get all the air out I really have to squeeze every inch of it, since after a certain point the inflator seems to stop letting out air. I'm guessing the same thing is happening underwater.

For reference, I'm diving a 60 lb donut wing with steel 100s. Ordered a new 45 lb wing, hoping it'll solve some issues.

 

[RickyF]

I don't think it is possible to ever get all the air out. At some point the water pressure is going to overcome the air trying to escape and you end up putting water in your BC. Also the location of the dumps on most BC's make you feel like a contortionist trying to.

 

[tbone1004]

start using your rear dump? These work better for dumping air anyway.

Also make sure you're weighted properly, you shouldn't get to a point where you have to dump every bit of it out in doubles unless you are in a real ****ty situation, like sub 300psi bad. With HP100's you should be minimum 17lbs overweighted at the beginning of the dive with the tanks full so you should be nowhere near empty.

 

[RJP]

For reference, I'm diving a 60 lb donut wing with steel 100s. Ordered a new 45 lb wing, hoping it'll solve some issues.

What is the premise for your hope that a 45lb wing will solve this issue?

 

[danvolker]

When we do Hot drops off of Palm beach, we actually suck the air out of the wings so they will have zero lift on us hitting the water---I want to be 20 feet down in the first 2 seconds, and accelerating downward from there

A few months ago some one posted about bacteria or mold issues making this practice unsafe...perhaps more so if you have a weak immune system---and while I have never heard of any palm beach divers becoming ill from this practice ( so I am not too concerned), the BEST way to suck all the air out would be to rig some kind of pump like you get with inflatable kayaks, that can either push air or suck air....and just rig up a little connector for your BC inflator...then have the pump handy each time you put your BC in, prior to jumping in the water.

We don't believe in jumping in and floating on the surface like a duck...I would not do this for anyone, or any boat.

[video=youtube_share;dSTBUir38zc]http://youtu.be/dSTBUir38zc?list=UUsM5Za9Kc3DbP7Qo3-Zmz9w[/video]
This is a group from Tenn or Virginia, that dove with Sandra and I....and they were very happy with using the hot drop technique --- you can see that a descent from the surface does not need to be so ridiculously slow as it is in many locations.......
p.s.
There are a few obvious things you always do prior to jumping in...you always breathe your reg, to be certain you have good air flow and that the DM did not turn your air off....
You do a quick check of your gear, and your buddies gear, prior to jumping in....
As you reach 20 feet down, you should have eye contact with your buddy, and you should be aware instantly if you see a leak that appears to be problematic.

 

[Nemrod]

I suck the air out prior to diving and between dives. I use the rear dump mostly while under. But I do not own a 60 pound wing so I can see how a wing with a huge taco would be a challenge. As to sucking the air from the BC, I do clean the bag occasionally with beach dilute mix. N

 

[tbone1004]

Nemrod, I wouldn't use diluted bleach in there, will destroy the butyl rubber over time, get some Steramine, it's cheap and is used to disinfect a whole range of things, CCR breathing loops included.

As to sucking the wing dry, I've never had that problem nor do I see a need to ever do it. With doubles you're starting off at least 10lbs overweight if you're diving AL80's and even if there's a bit of air in the BC it's not going to slow your descent by any meaningful number especially if you exhale all the way prior to entry. In singles it should also be a nonissue because you'll be at least 5lbs overweight due to weight of the air in the tank and if you hug the wing prior to getting into the rig you should get most of the air out of it. Maybe not all, but there shouldn't be a time when the wing is required to be empty empty to get down.

 

[boulderjohn]

start using your rear dump? These work better for dumping air anyway.

Agreed.

Also make sure you're weighted properly, you shouldn't get to a point where you have to dump every bit of it out in doubles unless you are in a real ****ty situation, like sub 300psi bad. With HP100's you should be minimum 17lbs overweighted at the beginning of the dive with the tanks full so you should be nowhere near empty.

Agreed here as well. It depends, though, on what one means by being weighted properly. When I am about perfectly weighted according to the way it is usually defined, I, too, find it a bit challenging to get rid of that last bit of bubble at the end of a dive. I much prefer to reach that state of a dive with a little more weight--enough to get the bubble to a vent more easily.

 

[danvolker]

Nemrod, I wouldn't use diluted bleach in there, will destroy the butyl rubber over time, get some Steramine, it's cheap and is used to disinfect a whole range of things, CCR breathing loops included.

As to sucking the wing dry, I've never had that problem nor do I see a need to ever do it. With doubles you're starting off at least 10lbs overweight if you're diving AL80's and even if there's a bit of air in the BC it's not going to slow your descent by any meaningful number especially if you exhale all the way prior to entry. In singles it should also be a nonissue because you'll be at least 5lbs overweight due to weight of the air in the tank and if you hug the wing prior to getting into the rig you should get most of the air out of it. Maybe not all, but there shouldn't be a time when the wing is required to be empty empty to get down.

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TBone,
I have seen so many divers that jump in, and have so much air in their BC's, that they are helpless on the surface for up to a minute or more---which means they will absolutely miss any kind of a precision drop you would want for a wreck or really cool structure. If they really knew what they were doing, as you suggest, they could dump faster, but the easiest way we have found to get the "unskilled descenders " to NOT miss a precision drop on a wreck, with 1 to 3 mph currents, is to suck the air out of the BC. Since most in this thread would be interested for recreational diving, I did not speak to the tech issue.

For our tech drops to 280, when we go in full negative with air sucked out of the 40 pound wings, we can hit the wreck in around a minute, so we can get high precision drops that are very easy for us to perform. Sort of like a HALO Jump

 

[C Dub]

Hey Dan, a bit off topic: Is the bait ball group of small fish the babies of the big groupers/bass? And was that yellow tail or similar trying to eat some? Great video, thanks for sharing!

When we do Hot drops off of Palm beach, we actually suck the air out of the wings so they will have zero lift on us hitting the water---I want to be 20 feet down in the first 2 seconds, and accelerating downward from there

A few months ago some one posted about bacteria or mold issues making this practice unsafe...perhaps more so if you have a weak immune system---and while I have never heard of any palm beach divers becoming ill from this practice ( so I am not too concerned), the BEST way to suck all the air out would be to rig some kind of pump like you get with inflatable kayaks, that can either push air or suck air....and just rig up a little connector for your BC inflator...then have the pump handy each time you put your BC in, prior to jumping in the water.

We don't believe in jumping in and floating on the surface like a duck...I would not do this for anyone, or any boat.

[video=youtube_share;dSTBUir38zc]http://youtu.be/dSTBUir38zc?list=UUsM5Za9Kc3DbP7Qo3-Zmz9w[/video]
This is a group from Tenn or Virginia, that dove with Sandra and I....and they were very happy with using the hot drop technique --- you can see that a descent from the surface does not need to be so ridiculously slow as it is in many locations.......
p.s.
There are a few obvious things you always do prior to jumping in...you always breathe your reg, to be certain you have good air flow and that the DM did not turn your air off....
You do a quick check of your gear, and your buddies gear, prior to jumping in....
As you reach 20 feet down, you should have eye contact with your buddy, and you should be aware instantly if you see a leak that appears to be problematic.