Regulator Help, Leak

[rob.mwpropane]

Hey guys. I have taken a regulator rebuild class so I have a very limited understanding of how to take them apart and put them back together. I think I'm probably just dangerous at this point as I think I know something (that's false, I don't know anything).

I've rebuilt a few and all has been great. I knew there would come a point that I would need to troubleshoot and that day is here. The regulator I've attached in the pictures and the video links leaks when I turn the tank on. It's a brand new regulator, and has done this since coming out of the box so I'm not sure there's anything I can do. I've taken it apart and swapped over parts either from a known working regulator or from the rebuild kit. The issue remains with this regulator.

It leaks indefinitely when I turn the tank on slightly / slowly, if I turn the tank on more there's an audible "pop" and she seals up. Any suggestions or pointers? The manufacturer agreed (which is awesome because I bought this regulator last year and it's been unused for 6 months) to pay for shipping both ways to find out what the issue is, but I like to tinker. It might go back at some point, but I'd like to try at least.

The 1st thing I did was test ip and it's rock solid. I set mine around 125-130 and it holds that just fine.

Videos; Dropbox - 21-07-01 - Simplify your life

Thoughts? I've also attached a picture breakdown of the regulator parts.

 

[lexvil]

Send it back, they will fix it or replace it.

 

[grf88]

Both of mine do the same when I first pressurize them but I have never had an issue diving with them.

 

[rsingler]

Watching your video, I think I agree with your orange arrow, but I'm not sure. The sound change as you moved your finger near the silver to brown joint seemed to change a bit when you were nearer the DIN fitting.
So, in my mind it's either
1) where your arrow is, in which case its a diaphragm leak. You need to open it up and replace the diaphragm (or maybe first see that you have metal-to-metal contact between the halves; i.e., tighten the joint). <--This is not correct. See posts below. Or...
2) if the sound is actually coming from the DIN to reg joint, then you need to remove the DIN fitting and replace that oring.

So I'd pin that down by inverting your tank in the sink and just barely cracking the valve to see if you can see where the bubbles are coming from.

Fun stuff!

 

[rsingler]

Both of mine do the same when I first pressurize them but I have never had an issue diving with them.

A leak like the one in the video is not okay.
The only hiss/pop that's okay is when some thin oring style tank valves leak for a sec until the oring seals against the joint between valve and yoke. That's not also applicable here.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Watching your video, I think I agree with your orange arrow, but I'm not sure. The sound change as you moved your finger near the silver to brown joint seemed to change a bit when you were nearer the DIN fitting.
So, in my mind it's either
1) where your arrow is, in which case its a diaphragm leak. You need to open it up and replace the diaphragm (or maybe first see that you have metal-to-metal contact between the halves; i.e., tighten the joint). Or...
2) if the sound is actually coming from the DIN to reg joint, then you need to remove the DIN fitting and replace that oring.

So I'd pin that down by inverting your tank in the sink and just barely cracking the valve to see if you can see where the bubbles are coming from.

Fun stuff!

When I 1st took things apart it felt like the swivel and HP chamber were loose, so I tightened it and put things back together...no go. Then I took it apart and swapped the o ring, that didn't do it. I also thought that maybe the din o ring was having issues, that didn't fix it so I removed the entire din fitting from a known working regulator and the leak stayed with the 1st stage that I'm working on. So at least I'm on the right track

I did not replace the diaphragm. I opened it up and because it's new and never used I very carefully removed it and reused it. But there were no issues that I could see.

Turning it upside down and in the bathtub is a good idea.

Referring to your ideas 1.) and 2.), why would either seal up after applying more pressure? Maybe in the instance of the din o ring, but I would think if the diaphragm was the culprit applying more pressure would just cause a bigger leak?

Thanks everyone, I knew I would get some good ideas on here.

P.S. - for the record the manf. offered right away for me to send the 1st stage back, all expenses paid. I have multiple regulators made by them and I've been happy with all of them.

 

[rsingler]

why would either seal up after applying more pressure? Maybe in the instance of the din o ring, but I would think if the diaphragm was the culprit applying more pressure would just cause a bigger leak?

I agree. It doesn't make sense.
As for reusing the diaphragm, that's okay with a torqued diaphragm reg: if the condition is good, then reusing after torquing to correct spec is acceptable with a near-new part.
But the Deep6 is a metal-to-metal spec. The clearance between the two halves is determined by machining. If it worked before, then the build is probably correct. But the diaphragm clamping force is now a function of diaphragm thickness, rather than torque. If your particular diaphragm is slightly thinner than spec, it may leak, and reassembly won't improve the clamping action, because you can't get any tighter than metal-to-metal.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I agree. It doesn't make sense.
As for reusing the diaphragm, that's okay with a torqued diaphragm reg: if the condition is good, then reusing after torquing to correct spec is acceptable with a near-new part.
But the Deep6 is a metal-to-metal spec. The clearance between the two halves is determined by machining. If it worked before, then the build is probably correct. But the diaphragm clamping force is now a function of diaphragm thickness, rather than torque. If your particular diaphragm is slightly thinner than spec, it may leak, and reassembly won't improve the clamping action, because you can't get any tighter than metal-to-metal.

Ok, that makes sense. I think at this point I'll probably just send back to them. Anymore and I'll be rebuilding the whole thing with a kit and that's not really what I want to do with a new reg!

 

[emoreira]

There should be a plastic washer between the diaphragm and the nut, to avoid turning the nut against the rubber. I cannot see it in the explosion pic posted. I've downloaded the service manual but the explosion diagram is so bad that I can hardly see the parts.
I repaired a diaphragm first stage with a leak in the same place because that washer was missing and there was a metal to metal contact between the parts that does not allow propear sealing.
Anyway, the best test is to submerge the first stage attached to a tank to see exactly where the leak comes from.

 

[Centrals]

There should be a plastic washer between the diaphragm and the nut, to avoid turning the nut against the rubber. I cannot see it in the explosion pic posted. I've downloaded the service manual but the explosion diagram is so bad that I can hardly see the parts.
I repaired a diaphragm first stage with a leak in the same place because that washer was missing and there was a metal to metal contact between the parts that does not allow propear sealing.
Anyway, the best test is to submerge the first stage attached to a tank to see exactly where the leak comes from.

NOT necessary eg. Apeks