Referral diver question.

[SaltyCracker]

My son will be getting his OW certification with SSI but we'd like to know if he MUST use an SSI facility to do his referral check out dives in another state. We're hoping to have options based on location rather than dive operation.

 

[tursiops]

My son will be getting his OW certification with SSI but we'd like to know if he MUST use an SSI facility to do his referral check out dives in another state. Were hoping to have options based on location rather than dive operation.

It is not a question about the location or the dive operation, but rather the training agency wherever you are going. You need to go to a location/shop that operates under SSI. PADI won't work. Others can answer better about SDI and other agencies.
Your other thread mentioned Florida. SSI lists 35 locations in Florida; have you checked them out? I might suggest you focus on shore dives; boat dives and OW referral dives can be a lot to absorb for some folks.

ADDED: it is, in fact, possible for your son to get a PADI OW certification, but he'll have to jump through some hoops, and you'll spend a bit more (because you have to buy a PADI OW manual and he'll have to redo a lot of the pool and classroom stuff before ever going to open water.

 

[Rob9876]

I have no doubt that the answer by @tursiops is technically correct for standards purposes, but I am aware that some PADI shops (& perhaps others too) do continue to operate as if there is still a "Universal Referral" program -- i.e., they'll take the referral from another agency, do the checkout dives, and issue a PADI card if desired. Also, some of the home town (referring) shops will let the PADI shop do the open water portion tasks and then issue the C-card from the agency the home town shop is with.
EDIT: I don't believe that all shops would require you to jump through the extra hoops tursiops mentioned in his ADDED language, but again, I have no doubt that he is right about what is properly "by the book".

I don't believe this is technically up to standards any longer, but as long as the referral dives are otherwise handled appropriately I'm not sure that I would care. YMMV. I'd get the referral paperwork from your home town shop and then confirm with the Florida shop what they will or won't do.

On boat versus shore dives, I think it's been debated here before about which would be better for check out dives. I think it depends on the location -- to me it's pretty easy to roll or stride off of a boat, whereas walking in and out of the shore can be more challenging in some areas, especially for smaller people who are new to diving.

 

[SaltyCracker]

Thanks. I misspoke when referring to "hoping to have options based on location rather than dive operation."
I meant "training agency".
And yes, we are focusing on either shore dives or inland fresh water dives. I'm happy to hear recommendations on SSI shops that can arrange this best.

 

[tursiops]

I have no doubt that the answer by @tursiops is technically correct for standards purposes, but I am aware that some PADI shops (& perhaps others too) do continue to operate as if there is still a "Universal Referral" program -- i.e., they'll take the referral from another agency, do the checkout dives, and issue a PADI card if desired. Also, some of the home town (referring) shops will let the PADI shop do the open water portion tasks and then issue the C-card from the agency the home town shop is with.

I'm sure there are shops -- probably not in Florida -- that will just hand you a card if you hand them enough money. I hope we are not talking about those shops!

PADI discourages its instructors/shops from participating in the Universal Referral program under advice of counsel; they point out it is probably impossible to defend an instructor in such a situation if something were to go wrong. More importantly, the Universal Referral program does NOT allow just issuing a PADI certification; the student gets a piece of paper they take back to their home shop to get a card from their home shop.

If, however, they do want a PADI, card, then they get to play by the PADI rules. there is no middle ground, i..e. play by the Universal Referral rules and those of the non-PADI home shop but get a PADI card anyway.

You may know of someone, or heard the story of someone, who managed to lie and cheat.....I would hope that is a rare circumstance, and would not recommend it on ScubaBoard! Any instructor or shop found doing that loses any association with PADI and that can be an economic disaster for them.

Bottom line? Just find an SSI shop and do the referral there.

 

[Rob9876]

I'm sure there are shops -- probably not in Florida -- that will just hand you a card if you hand them enough money. I hope we are not talking about those shops!

No, I'm not talking about just paying them to hand you a card. But I am talking about well regarded shops in Florida that will put another agency's OW student through the normal check out process and then issue a PADI C-card. In fact, though I won't name names I've seen a number of shops (Florida and elsewhere) that still say this on their websites.

Again, I have no doubt that you are right from an agency perspective, and I can definitely understand the liability issues. But from a student perspective as long as the skills/knowledge are learned and demonstrated sufficiently, shops that still use the Universal Referral approach can be convenient for the students.

 

[tursiops]

But I am talking about well regarded shops in Florida that will put another agency's OW student through the normal check out process and then issue a PADI C-card. In fact, though I won't name names I've seen a number of shops (Florida and elsewhere) that still say this on their websites.

Can you actually confirm that it was the "normal check out process"? Absolutely, a PADI shop can issue a PADI card to a non-PADI student; there is a whole section (two, in fact) in the Instructor Manual about how to do this. But there is more to the process than there is for a PADI student. That's the point; you get to pay for that extra in time and money. There is at least another quiz/exam, and there is a mandatory confined water dive to assess skills prior to the open water dives.

You say there is marketing material on websites that says "we'll take Universal Referrals." Now we get to ask what the reality is versus the marketing and hype.

 

[VikingDives]

My son will be getting his OW certification with SSI but we'd like to know if he MUST use an SSI facility to do his referral ...

No, SSI participates in the global referral program. SDI and PADI also participate, though as noted above, PADI doesn't encourage their instructors to do so. PADI wants instructors to issue a PADI c-card if you complete the program with them. With SDI and most other agencies (I believe) the instructor can issue a cert, but generally the procedure is to send you back to the referring instructor to issue the cert.

As far as PADI being a problem, in my experience the want of your dollar outweighs the concern about liability, but call the shop(s) you're looking at to make sure they'll accept referrals.

SDI shops are required to accept global referrals.

All that being said, I know there are PADI shops that will just take you to the water for your checkout dives. You get the training your pay for... usually. I charge almost as much for a inbound referral as I do for a full open water course because I'm not going to sign off on your training until you're neutral, trim and comfortable in the water. Every person that I've taken as a referral is either a zero or a one on that scale.

 

[TravisD]

SSI Has it's own referral form for checkouts to non-SSI locations. They've been trying to kill this off though - it stuck around for at least 2021 due to pandemic impacts on dive shops the way I read it.

SSI say to NOT use the Universal referral form, only theirs. (I"m referencing the March 26 email update that went to Instructors)

They way I've done it with the SSI form is that the student takes it to the other non-SSI instructor who completes it and they bring it back to me to issue the card. I did make sure to do some due-diligence to check that the instructor on the other end was an active instructor with their agency. This way the other instructor can charge for the checkouts, but not have to send PADI any $$ for the cert, at least that's how I understand it.

One angle you should check is to check with the operator directly and see if they have an SSI instructor on-staff. Apparently PADI's resort agreements say that they can't advertise other agencies, so just asking may turn up the easy-button for doing a referral.

 

[mrfisher77]

We just completed a referral dive for my daughter in Curacao. She studied SSI (as did I). The referral diver packet we received from our local dive shop had a letter that stated (I'm paraphrasing) "This student is SSI. You can be an SSI or PADI shop and certify." Everything worked out splendidly. No issues.

For reference, we completed this on 12/12 and 12/13.