Questions about Squeeze and aborting OW classes

[RayJayJr]

Hi all!

I've got a few questions I'd like to run by the experienced members here about squeeze.

I've completed all of my in-pool classes here in my hometown. Each dive I had little difficulty getting to the bottom of the pool (14ft). I've heard a lot of stories about people having trouble getting to the bottom of the pool because they were unable to equalize. Having heard these stories, I asked my instructor if he could give me references to one or two local ENTs (dive doctors?) just in case I had trouble during my lake training dives.

Sure enough, I went out to the lake today (63 degrees) for my first of four dives, and couldn't get passed 14ft. My left ear equalized fine, but I had pain and a great degree of discomfort in my right ear. After two attempts, we called the dives (with my instructors blessing) on the grounds of safety. Even after I was out of the water, I had a headache, and discomfort in my right ear.


I phoned the dive shop right away to let them know that I was unable to decend, and that I would like to reschedule at THEIR convenience. They informed me that there would be a $50 fee for rescheduling - I ask why they expected me to pay a fee to reschedule for something I had no control over. the answer? the have to pay their instructors. Well of course! Not to sound cheap (which im sure I do ) but why should I pay them 50 bucks because I physically cant get to the bottom?


the whole situation stinks - they want to charge me, the owner of the dive shop said she had no intention of rescheduling for free without a doctors note stating explicity that it was in fact a medical condition and not myself "misjudjing" my comfort level.

Questions are:

- What should I do about my right ear? I'm in good health and am not sick - how come only my right ear caused me issues?

- How do I deal with the dive shop, I have no intention in giving them additional money, and I'm so distressed with their conduct that I almost dont have a desire to even reschedule the dives. I'd rather be out the total ammount then have them ride my back about a doctors note

- What should I expect of other dive operators and their conduct with students who have difficulty on dives - are "rescheduling" fees common practice?




Thanks for any advice - I am pretty bummed about my dive and have lost complete confidence in "my" dive shop.

Cheers.

 

[Shaneinpenang]

I think you need to step back and look at it from their point of view. You have indeed utilised an instructor for the aborted dive. Why shouldn't you pay for the time you spent with the instructor? I can see where you're coming from, you believe you have paid for the course and so why should you pay for something that you could not have known would happen. While the decision to abort the dive was indeed the correct one, it certainly was not the instructor's fault that you could not equalise, and he did indeed provide you a service on the day. If the shop tried to slug you with the price of an entire new OW class that would be wrong, but asking for a rescheduling fee of $50 is quite reasonable. In fact even if you had of cancelled at the last minute and not turned up on the day (ie. not utilised the instructor on the day) I would still expect to pay a rescheduling fee.

Look at the same example but using a different business. If you hired a car for the day but then got a terrible cold and couldn't drive it anywhere, would you take it back the next day and expect not to pay because you only drove it home and back to the shop again? While you may not have made full use of the car, you were indeed supplied with a car if you wished to use it, and therefore you should pay for the car.

If a dive operator is able to afford to allow students to abort dives without charging additional fees I think it is great customer service. I have in fact been witness to this a number of times. I am however more than aware that unless you are based in a very large tourist area, most dive operators can not afford this. Before you get really angry with this operator, see if you can estimate how much money they are actually making from you. Take the price of you course, then subtract:

OW Manuals (usually quite expensive, even at cost price)
Study materials (pens, pencils, exams etc)
Pool fees (or pool maintenance if they have their own pool)
Dive site fees (might be marine park fees, quarry access fees etc)
Boat running costs (Very very expensive)
Hire gear maintenance (Dive gear in a hire situation does not last very long)

After subtracting this you will have a rough estimate of how much money the course is supplying the shop. Then if the shop owner isn't doing your instruction subtract the instructor's fee. Then with the left over cash (I can almost guarantee you it isn't very much by this stage) think about the other costs the shop incurrs. Shop leases, boat lease/loan, vehicle loans/lease, shop insurance, boat insurance, insurance for each instructor. The list just keeps going on and on. If you hang around the dive industry for any period of time you will soon discover that there are very few people that ever get rich from diving.

So in conclusion, don't think your shop is being harsh charging you $50. Everything about diving is expensive. I even doubt wether $50 would cover the costs they would have incurred by taking you diving for even the short period you were in the water. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[RayJayJr]

Look at the same example but using a different business. If you hired a car for the day but then got a terrible cold and couldn't drive it anywhere, would you take it back the next day and expect not to pay because you only drove it home and back to the shop again? While you may not have made full use of the car, you were indeed supplied with a car if you wished to use it, and therefore you should pay for the car.

If a dive operator is able to afford to allow students to abort dives without charging additional fees I think it is great customer service. I have in fact been witness to this a number of times. I am however more than aware that unless you are based in a very large tourist area, most dive operators can not afford this. Before you get really angry with this operator, see if you can estimate how much money they are actually making from you. Take the price of you course, then subtract:

Study materials (pens, pencils, exams etc) - Supplied our own materials
Pool fees (or pool maintenance if they have their own pool) - Basic salt-water pool, incurred cost is minimal - they probably spend more on public health inspections.

Dive site fees (might be marine park fees, quarry access fees etc) - Students pay for the cost of site access fees, which is ten dollars, the instructors pay their own way as well.

Boat running costs (Very very expensive) - They dont have any boats

Hire gear maintenance (Dive gear in a hire situation does not last very long) - completely true, rental equipment never lasts long - But again, one student was provided with a wetsuit that had surface tears, and 3 students were provided with regs that puked air at the surface without provocation.

So in conclusion, don't think your shop is being harsh charging you $50. Everything about diving is expensive. I even doubt wether $50 would cover the costs they would have incurred by taking you diving for even the short period you were in the water. That's my opinion anyway.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter - I really do have to take their expenses into perspective. I think I've always had a fairly good idea that the smaller dive shop really *dont* make a lot of money, product suppliers charge a lot, instructors are expensive etc.

This dive shop has been around a while however, and any business around that long should be thriving in a city like ours like if it's under good management. I have no sympathy (ignoring the fact that I'm fired up about my experience) for businesses who dont know how to manage their money well. Blue XT~Sea seems to be doing great, and from what I hear they have fantastic customer service. Do they still charge a re-scheduling fee? I hope so. I'd charge some clutz who decides not to show up too. But docking a paying customer for rescheduling a dive because hes got potential medical issues is just not my idea of the best customer service.

The instructor was fantastic, and his suggestion to go see an ENT right away will be heeded. I do plan to go in to see the doc and get his/her opinion. That being said, is it possible that I have sort of inflammation or infection in my right ear? I didn't *feel* sick at all before the dives, which is strange.


Keep the opinions coming!

 

[Wildcard]

I think your way out of line. $50 for an additional dive is very reasonable, down right cheap in fact. The fact that you hav ongoing problems with one ear, you didn't mention a time frame, dictates that you get checked before going any further. Many low grade infections will not cause discomfort under normal conditions or you may have a flat E tube or some other congenital deformity that may prevent you from diving.
Get your ears checked by an ENT. Try DAN to find a local doc that knows diving. If no local doc, just explain the problem to any good ENT and they should be able to let you know whats what.
Then got off your LDSs back and let them work with you, nothing is free. Good luck and I hope you get this all resolved and can enjoy this great sport.

 

[ItsBruce]

The fee for rescheduling is akin to the discussion about what happens on a dive boat if the diver decides not to dive or calls the dive. The question here is who eats the cost? The choices are: (1) the instructor, (2) the shop, or (3) you.

Should the instructor offer another dive without getting paid. You said the instructor must pay for site access. That means the question is: Should the instructor pay for the privilege of teaching you? I think you know the answer to that.

Should the shop pay the instructor to give you another class? If there is a significant likelihood that you will buy lots of gear from it, maybe. But, odds are that you will shop for the best price on gear and then buy it online. BTW: You'd be surprised how slim a margin many shops operate on. One near me just closed its doors after something like 30 or 40 years. It is probably not feasible for the shop to eat the cost. And, at $50, it is probably just breaking even.

That leaves you. You were, after all, the one who had the physical issue that prevented you from diving. I recognize that the issue was a complete surprise to you. I agree on the bit about renting a car and then being ill and unable to use it. Another example is hiring a lawyer on an hourly basis to go to court for you and having the court direct the lawyers to come back another day...the lawyer will not forego his fees for the hours spent.

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

 

[RayJayJr]

Perhaps I'm crazy? I've worked in the photographic industry for over 10 years in both sales, and in professional labs. In those ten years, I cannot think of a single example where a customer has left our stores unsatisfied. Sometimes we get customers who bring back rentals because their trips get cancelled, or get large format prints returned because their opinion of a color match is different from ours. In each case, we always make an effort to have the customer leave satisfied. The markup on equipment and services is so marginal, that we cannot afford to loose customers.

This, often times, means eating costs, big costs. On orders where customers think their artistic eye is better than our trained eyes, we'll eat a hundred bucks. But the customer comes back, and we earn their money.

All the more reason for the lack of sympathy when a store refuses to eat some cash. In all honesty, I'm completey OK with fees for the right reasons: Not showing up, being lazy, having a change in schedule. But a physical restriction? my god, the diving industry must be really top heavy. I wonder where all those hundreds and thousands of dollars in equipment markups go? Mares and Zeagle? If, as a business owner, you're not willing to 'do the right thing' and eat some dollars for the customers sake, then maybe you should be a venture capitalist. Then again, if I can't afford to pay 50 bucks for a sport that has so much to offer, maybe I shouldn't dive, right? haha.

Also, just so all of you know, don't take my posts as being argumentative - I heed of all of your opinions, as you're all experience divers, and I value wisdom.

Cheers.

 

[Joanne Hughes]

I agree that it is reasonable for the dive shop to ask for you to pay for the extra dives. however, here in the uk I did my OW course and I didnt do all of the scheduled dives for my certification due to my daughter calling the dive due to cold. It is the policy of my LDS that if you dont certify the first time you can have extra pool sessions (which both myself and my daughter did) and do the open water dives at no extra cost, which we did and both certified at the second attempt. I was very impressed,my thanks go to Scuba Pursuits, Staffordshire, UK. I still would have not been upset if I had been charged for all the extra time that their staff put in, however, I think that the policy they have of letting customers take their time and do everything at their own pace can only do their reputation good and get them more ongoing business.