[Question] Full Face Mask Users

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Stansilus

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Messages
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Location
San Diego
# of dives
50 - 99
Good Afternoon all!

I have been diving for a few years, working towards getting my dive instructor and recently dove in on getting a full face mask.

I am a VERY cautious diver, probably overly so. Everything on my kit has fail safes, most of it several. On top of that, if something is off or isn't working right I call it for the day no matter how small. This was actually one of my larger perks to FFM, odds of mask coming off are next to zero. So the potential of the whole remove and replace skill is very low for me as it isn't coming off unless the regulator went in which case it would be my secondary and im out for the day. Not putting that mask back on and trying again.

After getting the mask I went to pool, did the basics... flooding, adjusting flow, free flow etc... and have been logging dives in it ever since.

My large question here is did you do the skills class for FFM? Is there many valid reasons to do so or just a money grab for a cert?

Thanks for thoughts! I am new hear and love hearing peoples opinions on this stuff.
 
Why are you using a FFM to begin with? Out of fear of a reg getting kicked out of your mouth? How cold is the water you're in? In a recreational setting, the "hard" skill is successful deployment of a back up mask. Many people that go through the FFM fad ditch it rather quickly. I don't know that any agency allows you to teach OW in one?
 
I use it for several reasons...

One it doesnt leak with my beard. The reg mask/combo always leaks for me so I spend time clearing a mask non stop, which takes away a lot of diving fun for me. Two, I like to be able to communicate with my wife/friends if desired. Three, I have a medical condition that can cause me to an seisures or other fun neurological complications. So in a FFM I wouldnt spit out my reg if this occurred. Four, better vis which I enjoy. Five, my face stays warm. Six, I can breath normally through my nose so it makes diving a lot more comfortable.
 
I use it for several reasons...

One it doesnt leak with my beard. The reg mask/combo always leaks for me so I spend time clearing a mask non stop, which takes away a lot of diving fun for me. Two, I like to be able to communicate with my wife/friends if desired. Three, I have a medical condition that can cause me to an seisures or other fun neurological complications. So in a FFM I wouldnt spit out my reg if this occurred. Four, better vis which I enjoy. Five, my face stays warm. Six, I can breath normally through my nose so it makes diving a lot more comfortable.

What did your doctor say about diving with a condition like that?
Also pretty stumped that a condition like that would be your third reason for using a FFM, and not your first.
 
Those are in no particular order :)

Dr. Says go nuts! It just something that could happen not the norm, but always better safe than sorry!
 
One it doesnt leak with my beard.

Are you sure or does the water vent out with your exhalations? Which mask did you get?

FFMs usually leak more with a beard except for the super-wide and soft Kirby Morgan Band Masks used by surface supplied divers. The physics is pretty simple, more sealing surface area in contact with facial hair results in a greater volume of water leaking.

Three, I have a medical condition that can cause me to an seisures or other fun neurological complications.

That is a strong argument. As you know, using backup and shared regulators is significantly complicated by FFM. Is there any relation with your condition to stress induced seizures? If so, it could make an OOA failure much worse. Not advocating one way or the other, just exploring.

Four, better vis which I enjoy

That is interesting. I have always found the field of vision more restricted by FFM compared to low volume masks, especially down.

Five, my face stays warm. Six, I can breath normally through my nose so it makes diving a lot more comfortable.

Those are usually at the top of the list for FFMs. Just be careful that you are still adequately ventilating your lungs, which nose-breathing tends be shallower breathing. FFMs inherently have more dead air space so deep breathing is advised, which can be done through the nose. It just takes a more conscious effort than through the mouth.

As far as training and crisis management, think through and practice how you would manage barfing in the mask. You need to avoid inspiring chunks and acids and clogging your second stage.
 
Yep, the neurological issue sounds like a pretty good argument for FFM.

I didn't find the transition from half to full particularly difficult and, apart from using a nose block to clear, can't think of anything much to relearn. That said I looked like a total plonker on my first FFM dive. The instructor told use to remove the FFM underwater, then replace and clear. I managed it, but struggled a bit and he gave me an odd look. At the end, he asked me and the other students how we found mask clearing. No-one seemed to have any problems except me. He then looked and me and sarcastically suggested I use the purge? After many hundreds of half mask dives it appears I automatically nose cleared instead, not so easy with an FFM and no reg in your mouth!
 
I worked a charter the other day where the instructor used a FFM. Surface communication was difficult enough to the point that I would not want an instructor using a FFM on any future charters.
 
My large question here is did you do the skills class for FFM? Is there many valid reasons to do so or just a money grab for a cert?

Thanks for thoughts! I am new here and love hearing people's opinions on this stuff.

When I first began using full face masks, there were no formal classes or training available; so, I spent some of my own time in the pool, futzing with its removal and replacement with a conventional "split" mask.

Mine, a Poseidon Atmosphere, is "positive" or "over-pressured," as opposed to "on demand," as are most of the entry level masks. Since I was doing a great deal of work in questionable harbor waters, collecting samples, etc, the OP feature was a good choice; was quite well-ventilated; and there is very little inner volume -- less than .5 liter.

No CO2-inspired headaches for me.

That comment, later in the thread, about your potential or actual medical condition, raises further questions, since FFMs are not without some inherent risks.

From a recent thread, "Full Face Specialty - worth it? --

"[T]here are some potential, unusual FFM safety issues, specific to those masks of which divers should be made aware. The onset of bradycardia immediately springs to mind -- a function of the mammalian diving reflex -- should there be a sudden emergency removal or flooding damage to a FFM, and exposure of the face, to cold water of, say, 10˚ C and below. He or she may experience sudden apnea, and be temporarily unable to inhale, [from] a pony bottle or octopus . . .

"Th[e] unanticipated buoyancy had [also] been an issue, when I initially began using full face masks, especially in shallow waters, when replacing zincs as a kid. A number of manufacturers had offered ridiculously expensive, sometimes unwieldy ballasts for their masks (.8 kilos is a bit much on the neck, after a few hours; the mask itself weighs only 860 grams), usually to the tune of several hundred dollars for two meager wads of either lead or machined brass; though a few of us, at the time, resisted -- cobbled together our own, with bagged shot, encapsulated within lengths of trimmed inner tube, with cable ties.

"I did eventually manage to find a pair of those "genuine" 600 gram commercial weights, years ago, at a local Bay Area swap meet, for 25.00: a generous 325.00 discount, off a current list price. The seller had been using them as paperweights on an old stack of 1960s Playboy and Skin Diver magazines, had no knowledge of their purpose; and was happy to be rid of them, for whatever I had in my wallet . . ."


 
Thanks for the feedback guys!

""[T]here are some potential, unusual FFM safety issues, specific to those masks of which divers should be made aware. The onset of bradycardia immediately springs to mind -- a function of the mammalian diving reflex -- should there be a sudden emergency removal or flooding damage to a FFM, and exposure of the face, to cold water of, say, 10˚ C and below. He or she may experience sudden apnea, and be temporarily unable to inhale, [from] a pony bottle or octopus . . ."

This is actually my biggest concern, should I ever have to pop it off here as ya I can see this being shocking to go from warm to cold water instantly.

I currently use the Ocean Reef G-Divers unit as that was the one selected for me. And have yet to experience many buoyancy issues.

One other KEY point to where I started using this now is starting training with the local sheriff team now for Search and Rescue dives and this was a mandatory of underwater comms.


"I didn't find the transition from half to full particularly difficult and, apart from using a nose block to clear, can't think of anything much to relearn. That said I looked like a total plonker on my first FFM dive. The instructor told use to remove the FFM underwater, then replace and clear. I managed it, but struggled a bit and he gave me an odd look. At the end, he asked me and the other students how we found mask clearing. No-one seemed to have any problems except me. He then looked and me and sarcastically suggested I use the purge? After many hundreds of half mask dives it appears I automatically nose cleared instead, not so easy with an FFM and no reg in your mouth!"

I can see me fumbling through the remove replace as well as that is by far my LEAST practiced skill with this as like I said if this failed over it would be due to the regulator going out and it would just be a remove and onto a secondary mask and reg. (which I still have another back up for a buddy as well.)

The look down and purge however I have nailed, even though I have yet to have this thing get water in it and its even a bit hard to flood.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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