Question for you videocam experts

[DrySuitDave]

Gang,

I need to get a videocam at some point and need your opinions.

I have bought a Canon GL2 but returned it when I found out Wolf Cameras charged me $2800 then I found it for $1300. That videocam has 3 CCD's in it and the video picture had a really nice color and shaprness, and I have always heard 3 CCD's are the way to go. This cameras has a total of 410,000 pixels on the 3 CCDs.

Then comes along a JVC GRHD High Definition videocam.
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027075

This uses a 1.18 million single CCD HD Mode" records 750/30p digital high-definition images, "SD Mode" 525p progressive wide images, "DV Mode" at conventional 525i DV standard.

So which is a better image? 3ccd's or a single HD CCD?


Oh, and one other thing....NO GUESSING! I don't want to make a $7k mistake in getting the JVC with an underwater housing when the Canon videocam itself is 1/3 the price.

Thanks

 

[ronrosa]

Gang,

I need to get a videocam at some point and need your opinions.

I have bought a Canon GL2 but returned it when I found out Wolf Cameras charged me $2800 then I found it for $1300. Thanks

That's a great price on a great camcorder. But the choice on underwater housings is limited. The new JVC HD is too new for my tastes and has received mixed reviews.

My suggestion is a Sony 900 or 950. Then you have to choose your housing which is another big decision. Mechanical or electronic controls. You have a lot of choices: Gates, Light & Motion, Amphibico, USVH, Ikelite are popular.

Lights are a whole other decision. Halogen, HID, NIMH battery, SLA battery. I suggest holding off on the lights for a little while. You can still get good video without them.

 

[Genesis]

I would go with a Sony in any event, and if you're willing to spend that kind of money, consider either a PDX-10 or a TRV-950. The 900 has somewhat better low-light performance, but also has less saturation, and you will only find the 900 used (e.g. eBAY specials) and unfortunately they are commanding a STIFF premium to their actual value at present.

Why Sony? Because you REALLY WANT options in the housing.

The JVC HD cam is too new.

I own a USVH and like it a LOT. YMMV though, and the housing HAS TO be figured in.

3ccd cameras will outperform singles, but whether they're worth the extra money underwater is a mixed bag. You have a spectral problem underwater to begin with unless you are shooting close-ups with lighting all the time.

As for lighting, you DO NOT want HID. The reason is spectral distribution of the light. While the color temperature is higher this is not the most important thing - spectral distribution is. Ask for data on the spectral distributuion of the light produced, and if the maker of the light system cannot produce it, do not buy that system. They DO know what the spectrum looks like - they just don't want to tell you!

I shoot a TRV-33 (single CCD with native 16:9 support) and am mostly happy with it. Its not a terribly expensive camera, but it produces VERY NICE underwater video. I can send you a sample if you'd like, but be warned that DV files are BIG and even crunched to WMVs or similar they're STILL huge.

I have yet to buy underwater lighting for it, but will likely pull the trigger on that this spring - and am closely considering a dual Xenophot 50W bulb system. USVH has a very nice CF-based system but I've yet to see a report on the spectral quality of their light - and without it, I won't buy.

If you MUST have a system now but want the HD capability down the road then I'd consider buying a TRV-950 and housing and waiting until the next round of Sony camcorders comes out - they'll almost certainly "chase" JVC's entry, and once you know if that camcorder works well (including its low-light performance) THEN eBAY the camcorder and get the new one. If you go with an electronic housing like a USVH worst-case will be that you need to buy a new case, which will only cost a few hundred bucks, rather than a new housing, which will cost a couple thousand.

 

[Scubatooth]

I would go with a Sony in any event, and if you're willing to spend that kind of money, consider either a PDX-10 or a TRV-950. The 900 has somewhat better low-light performance, but also has less saturation, and you will only find the 900 used (e.g. eBAY specials) and unfortunately they are commanding a STIFF premium to their actual value at present.

Why Sony? Because you REALLY WANT options in the housing.

The JVC HD cam is too new.

I own a USVH and like it a LOT. YMMV though, and the housing HAS TO be figured in.

3ccd cameras will outperform singles, but whether they're worth the extra money underwater is a mixed bag. You have a spectral problem underwater to begin with unless you are shooting close-ups with lighting all the time.

As for lighting, you DO NOT want HID. The reason is spectral distribution of the light. While the color temperature is higher this is not the most important thing - spectral distribution is. Ask for data on the spectral distributuion of the light produced, and if the maker of the light system cannot produce it, do not buy that system. They DO know what the spectrum looks like - they just don't want to tell you!

I shoot a TRV-33 (single CCD with native 16:9 support) and am mostly happy with it. Its not a terribly expensive camera, but it produces VERY NICE underwater video. I can send you a sample if you'd like, but be warned that DV files are BIG and even crunched to WMVs or similar they're STILL huge.

I have yet to buy underwater lighting for it, but will likely pull the trigger on that this spring - and am closely considering a dual Xenophot 50W bulb system. USVH has a very nice CF-based system but I've yet to see a report on the spectral quality of their light - and without it, I won't buy.

If you MUST have a system now but want the HD capability down the road then I'd consider buying a TRV-950 and housing and waiting until the next round of Sony camcorders comes out - they'll almost certainly "chase" JVC's entry, and once you know if that camcorder works well (including its low-light performance) THEN eBAY the camcorder and get the new one. If you go with an electronic housing like a USVH worst-case will be that you need to buy a new case, which will only cost a few hundred bucks, rather than a new housing, which will cost a couple thousand.

Karl

very good points personally i wish that housings for the canon GL2 would come out but i know that wont happen because sony has agreements with just about all of the housing manufactures(electronic ones atleast) to only produce housings for the sonys, which to me is wrong but im not incharge of the stuff like that, at one time i was thinking about getting a 3 chipper and housing but for now i think im gonna stick to the still side of it all as thats were i have a good bit of experince in, plus at this point in my area theres not much to film, now if i lived in your part of the country i might have better reason to(and all of the hardware to go with it, ie computer hardware and about 3k worth of software to do it right)


also what type of lighting would you suggest for a 3 chipper, since HIDs arent reccomended and the systems for the housings dont seem to last all that long and dont have that much reach from the housing


Tooth

 

[Scubatooth]

Gang,

I need to get a videocam at some point and need your opinions.

I have bought a Canon GL2 but returned it when I found out Wolf Cameras charged me $2800 then I found it for $1300. That videocam has 3 CCD's in it and the video picture had a really nice color and shaprness, and I have always heard 3 CCD's are the way to go. This cameras has a total of 410,000 pixels on the 3 CCDs.

Then comes along a JVC GRHD High Definition videocam.
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027075

This uses a 1.18 million single CCD HD Mode" records 750/30p digital high-definition images, "SD Mode" 525p progressive wide images, "DV Mode" at conventional 525i DV standard.

So which is a better image? 3ccd's or a single HD CCD?


Oh, and one other thing....NO GUESSING! I don't want to make a $7k mistake in getting the JVC with an underwater housing when the Canon videocam itself is 1/3 the price.

Thanks

dave

were did you find the GL2 for that price because 2800 is MSRP and i would be leary about it being priced at 1300 because that means its either gray market or just the camera and you spend a grand or more on the "accessories".

The GL2 is a real good camera and i was thinking about it at one time for above and below (with all of the options to boot)but have since decided to stick with still (maybe in the future) photography as i have said earlier still is more of a area im familar with

Tooth

 

[Genesis]

I'm still investigating lighting. I want a Xenophot-bulb-based system, I think. USVH has an interesting new system made up of CF bulbs, but I do not have info yet on their spectral quality, and its EXPENSIVE.

The problem with Xenophot-bulb-based lighting is that it is high-wattage, and thus needs BIG batteries to get long burn times. You can get reasonable times (40 minutes or so) off SLA batteries of a reasonable size, but I'm not sure that's enough.

 

[ronrosa]

You can get reasonable times (40 minutes or so) off SLA batteries of a reasonable size, but I'm not sure that's enough.

I use a canister light with halogen bulb and SLA battery. For me and the type of diving I do 40 minutes is plenty. Most of my dives are around 60 minutes. I do not let the camera run for 60 minutes. Filming only the good stuff, I average around 10-15 minutes of footage per dive. If the dive was really good maybe 30 minutes.

Halogen bulbs don't have a problem being switched on and off. No need to have the light on wasting burn time if it's not needed. Most lights are only usefull for shots less than 10 feet away. On night dives, I use my flashlight a lot and only turn on my video light for filming.