Question for DM's/Instructors - How many "certified" divers are unprepared?

[bwerb]

I recently completed my OW certification with my wife. We had a fantastic instructor and did all of our dives (including the confined water dives) in the ocean with swells, surge, current etc. Once we completed our certification we went on a charter boat dive and were complimented on our buoyancy control and skills. Several of the other much more experienced divers (in terms of number of dives) were bouncing off the coral, running really low on air, and all-round looking like they had no clue what they were doing.

We have started our AOW certification and some of the people in the confined class were making uncontrolled buoyant ascents, others were flapping their arms so much to keep their trim and balance that they looked like they had fire ants in their suits. My buddy and I were the only two to stay together or check our gauges at all.

We are really enjoying the sport and are learning so much but have observed significant differences in the seeming preparadness of the people we have dived with who supposedly have received the same or similar training.

Here's the question, how many "certified" divers do you see who have really sub-par skills or are lacking in some of the basics? What do you do when you have people scheduled on dives or classes who are not on the same page as the rest of the group? Are there people who you refuse to dive with or teach?

 

[Walter]

"how many "certified" divers do you see who have really sub-par skills or are lacking in some of the basics?"

Most of them.

"What do you do when you have people scheduled on dives or classes who are not on the same page as the rest of the group?"

With dives, you plan around the weakest member of the group. Sometimes you have to tell people they aren't ready for a particular dive.

"Are there people who you refuse to dive with or teach?"

No. They may need to work on their swimming skills before I can teach them SCUBA, but I'll teach anyone who is not medically disqualified. My agency requires an entrance swim test prior to putting students on SCUBA.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Far too many of the divers I see are not up on their skills. Most of these are people who dive once each year while on vacation (or less frequently). I would estimate that this is about one of every five divers I see.

I don't know if this means that the people never learned the proper skills during initial training, or if they have simply forgotten much of what they once knew.

Fortunately, our shop screens people based in part on how recently they have been diving. If their break from diving has been two years or longer, we will not dive with them until they have done a pool refresher with an instructor. If their break from diving has been six months to two years, we mandate a shallow dive to get back into the rhythm of things before we take them on a wall dive.

As to courses for the woefully unprepared... we do a pool evaluation of skills before any course past Open Water. If the person's skills are insufficient, then remediation is required before a course can commence.

These precautions do not prevent all surprises, but we have no problem with telling someone that they need additional training.

In the most extreme cases, we have told a few select people that we do not want their business. The last time this was necessary, it was because a diver used a piece of elkhorn as a chair to sit on while he adjusted his camera.

 

[DiveTub]

As a Dive Instructor what really troubles me is the standard of divers turned out by some Dive Shops and instructors.

This is not an agency thing!! It is a shop and instructor thing.

Take the BOW and AOW courses, you can split hairs if you like, but the Big Three PADI, NAUI and SSI are all very similar in the teachings on these two courses. However if you take a bunch of newly qualified divers from one shop or instructor and a bunch from another, and then put them through the skills taught in the BOW you more often than not going find one group is more confident and adept and the skills and theory they have been taught.

Of course there is going to be those that are more confident and comfy in the water to begin with, but there is little doubt there will be some that have no right diving without further instruction. This has come from the mentality of cattle certification in dive shops, they just run them through as fast as they can take their money and send them off diving.

Before I accept any student into a class above BOW they must show me that they can complete the skills and theory of the BOW or AOW whatever level they are currently certified at. If they cant then I will offer to do a refresher for them before they continue with there education in more advanced Diving.

 

[Dee]

bwerb once bubbled...
Here's the question, how many "certified" divers do you see who have really sub-par skills or are lacking in some of the basics?

Probably 80% of the divers I see.

What do you do when you have people scheduled on dives or classes who are not on the same page as the rest of the group?

I'm not certified to teach but I don't refuse to help anyone who wants to improve their skills after certification. I'll dive with them, give them pointers on what they need improvement on and do what I can to help them achieve it.

Are there people who you refuse to dive with?

Unfortunately, yes. I've come across a couple of divers who have just never progressed past that newly certified stage. No matter how much help they receive, they just don't 'get it'. They are still flapping their arms, almost vertical in the water, finning is still a bottom-churning bicycle kick and they never even think to check their gauges. On land they can barely put their gear together, frequently shows up without all their basic gear, which doesn't fit properly, and wants to borrow from others, still can't read their computer...you get the picture. This is after diving with them for a couple of years and seeing first hand the danger they could be to themselves and others.

 

[radagalf]

Up here I have found divers to be of two types, those certifying because they want to go diving when they go on their holidays, and those who enjoy diving.

Generally, I find category A people to have horrible buoyancy, do not listen when I tell them to kick horizontally, and don't even understand why the 'viz' gets so bad (after they kick it - go figure).

Category B people are people like myself, who are working on their buoyancy or are taking a direction for the better. These people are also those that don't complain about "there's too much equipment to wear here" or "its too cold". Yes there is a lot of equipment, yes it is cold, but learn about yourself and your equipment and you can get around those factors quite easily.

I find a major reason for this is plainly a matter of a person's drive for the sport, (and the fact they find it very cumbersome up here, too long to walk to the dive site, blah blah blah). There are shops that try and produce better divers, but unfortunately a person will only learn what they want.

All in all, I'ld have to agree with Dee and everyone else. Approximately 80% are not all that great.

 

[Divesherpa]

bwerb once bubbled...
I recently completed my OW certification with my wife. We had a fantastic instructor and did all of our dives (including the confined water dives) in the ocean with swells, surge, current etc.
We are really enjoying the sport and are learning so much but have observed significant differences in the seeming preparadness of the people we have dived with who supposedly have received the same or similar training.

Hi BWerb,
I have two questions: What agency were you certified through?
Does the instructor who did your cert have a website or work for a shop that does?
Cheers

 

[chiara]

When such a subject is brought up, it is usually the lower level certifications which are discussed.

What about bad instructors?

Is there any agency which do post-IDC (or equivalent) checks in order to see if the pro in question is still good enough to be one?

 

[Walter]

"Take the BOW and AOW courses, you can split hairs if you like, but the Big Three PADI, NAUI and SSI are all very similar in the teachings on these two courses."

It's not "splitting hairs." There are major differences in standards from one agency to another. Which set of standards is better is a matter of opinion, but the differences are clear.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

chiara once bubbled...
When such a subject is brought up, it is usually the lower level certifications which are discussed.

What about bad instructors?

Is there any agency which do post-IDC (or equivalent) checks in order to see if the pro in question is still good enough to be one?

I believe that major scuba training agencies have some sort of quality control process to ensure that instructors are teaching in accordance with established standards.

PADI makes random inquiries of newly certified students and asks questions to determine if applicable standards were met. Remediation is mandated for instructors who failed to meet standards. That may require retraining, or even result in expulsion from PADI.