Question about the DAN O2 class

[firedogut]

I had a question about the DAN O2 class.

after completing this class do we fall under the license of a Doctor who gives us permisson to give a drug?

I already know how to give O2 and everything they will teach me in both this class and the Advanced O2 class. However i do not have a Doctor who grants me permisson to give a drug. Will this class be a waste of money?

 

[archman]

My understanding is that you more or less have a personal permit to purchase consumptive-grade oxygen. Unlike emergency medicine (which I'm not in anymore), your O2 cert. should not fall under the oversight of the regional/local medical supervisor. You'd have to register with the dude(s) for every oversight area you ventured into.
I've heard that certain places not savvy to DAN will not allow you to purchase oxygen, but that's out of ignorance. Most U.S. cities, you should be able to walk into a medical supply store and buy oxygen equipment and oxygen without too much fuss.
You could always refer to the DAN website.

 

[CAPT HOOK]

Neer heard anything being "under the license of a Doctor" but in some states, Michigan is one, you need a prescription to buy oxygen. It IS considered a drug!

I got around this by having my LDS get my tanks filled. (yes we had to use them on one occasion.)

 

[firedogut]

"under the license of a Doctor" is the same as "Medical Direction"

Because Oxygen is a drug i need a doctor to say it is ok to give. All EMTs, Paramedics, RNs, PAs, or anyone doing patient care has a doctor who has granted them permission to practice medicine under their license.

If i was to give oxygen to someone and did not have doctor oversight it is the same as practicing medicine without a license.


I'm not worried about getting the O2 bottle filled. Its just that if i was to give O2 to someone and did not have Medical Direction that person could turn around and sue me and could win a civil suit.

I didn't know if by taking the DAN O2 class if some doctor has granted us permisson to provide O2 within the scope of training the class taught.

 

[archman]

I didn't know if by taking the DAN O2 class if some doctor has granted us permisson to provide O2 within the scope of training the class taught.

Yeah, it's Peter Bennett! :11ztongue

 

[pt40fathoms]

You cannot administer so much as aspirin! Oxygen, being considered a drug is no different.

To get around this, with a conscious person, you do the following.

You tell them “oxygen has been proven to be beneficial in many dive related illnesses, do you want oxygen”? Then you HAND the mask or regulator to the person and THEY place it on their mouths.

If they refuse, you have no further obligation. If they die, you will have done everything you can.

If they are unconscious, then a next of kin will need to be asked and handed the O2.

If no next of kin is available, and if you can receive instructions from a doctor, nurse, or at the very least, an EMS professional, you may elect to administer O2. However in this last case scenario you may be opening yourself up to litigation. Heck in todays lawyer gone wild atmosphere, you almost certainly will be sued. All you are doing is providing a documented circle of due diligents and care that you can use in your defence.

 

[firedogut]

Even with the person saying they grant me permisson and i give them the mask to put on i am still giving the drug. I can't be like Codine is a great pain killer which has proven to help with pain. then have the person take to pills that he got from me. i'm still breaking the law and if sued i'm in deep trouble.

A medical director is a physician who is legally responsible for the patient care. I am a EMS provider and my medical director has granted me permisson to provide O2 to every patient. This is part of my written protocols, i do not need to ask for each patient. As long as i am on Duty and some one wishes to sue for malpractice because i gave O2 will be sueing the doctor not me (as long as i did what my protocols state).

When off duty i do not have a medical director and therefore can not practice medical care legally.

The hours that I work each day do not allow me to call DAN and ask this question right now. I leave my house around 5AM and don't get home untill 7PM. i thought that maybe someone on this board has taken this class and could answer the question.

If Peter Bennett has granted me persmisson to practice under his license if i take the DAN O2 class then i am protected if sued.

Now in the US Consent works like this:

Expressed Consent: A patient of legal age, able to make a rational and informed choice can grant me persmisson to provide medical care. Oral conest, a nod, or affirming gesture constitutes valid expressed conset.

Implied consent: When you assume that a patient who is unresponsive or unable to make a rational decision would consent to the treatment. The law assumes that this patient would give consent. Example a person who is on drugs, has a head injury, drunk,.... and can not tell me there name, place they are, or time (year, month...etc) can not make a rational choice therefore i have implied consent to treat them.

I'm 23 years old......my wife, my mom, my next of kin CAN NOT grant permission to treat me if i am responsive and metally competent. if i am not mentally competent then i'm treated under implied consent..
I won't even talk about treatment of a minor.......big can of worms. :11ztongue


Guess i need to just call DAN a call in a few weeks when i have time. I just don't want to spend $100 and not be able to give O2. Just cause you know how to do it doesn't mean you can.

If anyone want to call DAN and check on this that would be great. like i said my hours change in 3-4 weeks and i can always call then.

This was a long post...sorry all

 

[pt40fathoms]

Even with the person saying they grant me permisson and i give them the mask to put on i am still giving the drug. I can't be like Codine is a great pain killer which has proven to help with pain. then have the person take to pills that he got from me. i'm still breaking the law and if sued i'm in deep trouble.

I'm 23 years old......my wife, my mom, my next of kin CAN NOT grant permission to treat me if i am responsive and metally competent. if i am not mentally competent then i'm treated under implied consent..
I won't even talk about treatment of a minor.......big can of worms. :11ztongue

The laws are a little different here in Canada, but not much. Your first point about handing the person a drug and they then take it, is handled a little different up here. There is in our laws a "Good Samaritan" clause that protects individuals who render assistance in good faith. Unless you do something very stupid, like performing surgery on a roadside, you are protected. Conversely a law exists in Canada that if you deliberately ignore or do not attempt to render assistance to an individual/s in possible life threatening jeopardy, you are guilty of a crime. I know of no case where a person has been charged under this law, but it is interesting to know that it exists. These two alone are probably why we almost never hear of lawyers suing individuals who help other individuals in Canada.

As far as next of kin giving consent to treat an unresponsive person, or a minor. That too is considered valid here in Canada; I would venture to guess that it would be true in many states in the USA as well. But I could be wrong on that point. Maybe a lawyer who is on this board can enlighten us?

 

[firedogut]

we have the good samaritan laws here to. however this law doesnot prevent someone from being sued it just helps you in not losing the lawsuit.

There was a paramedic in houston who help someone while off duty. well he was sued but he won the lawsuit becasue of the Good smaritan law. The paramedic was still out $10,000 in lawyer fees and time he had to take off of work to be in court.

 

[pt40fathoms]

we have the good samaritan laws here to. however this law doesnot prevent someone from being sued it just helps you in not losing the lawsuit.

There was a paramedic in houston who help someone while off duty. well he was sued but he won the lawsuit becasue of the Good smaritan law. The paramedic was still out $10,000 in lawyer fees and time he had to take off of work to be in court.

Very sad, very sad indeed. Thats what is wrong with the system, even when you win, you loose!

You are free to sue anyone you want in Canada, however the law states that looser pays all costs. I suppose that little clause is also what helps keep the sharks at bay. We do a lot of things wrong up here, but sometimes we get it right. I believe when it comes to this type of legal matter, we got it right.

Now if we could just fix our "leaky" boarders!