PSI-PCI VCI (VIP) standards?

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Zef

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I am looking for a list of standards that PSI-PCI uses to establish if a cylinder passes or fails a visual inspection.

I have looked on their website and can't seem to find documentation of their standards. Am I overlooking them or do they not have this documentation available to the public?

I recently read that PSI-PCI "...is the only training formally endorsed, referred to and utilized by the cylinder manufacturers; and recognized by USDOT..."

I am just looking for a reference of what they have established as their pass/fail criteria since the USDOT does not themself require a VCI/VIP so any criteria would be established by PSI-PCI or established by another organization and adopted by PSI-PCI.

Does anyone have a definitive criteria list?

-Z
 
This is exactly what the PSI-PCI visual inspector training is about and the reason it costs $350.

Those of us alumni know that Mark and his staff are just an email or phone call away for any questions.
 
This is exactly what the PSI-PCI visual inspector training is about and the reason it costs $350.

Those of us alumni know that Mark and his staff are just an email or phone call away for any questions.

So PSI-PCI are setting a standard for the dive industry (at least the US dive industry) by which shops inspect ones cylinders and can recommend them as not being serviceable and the organization does not have any codified list of standards to publish for the public to reference against in order to assess what an inspector tells them? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Since the DOT does not require visual inspection and it is just an industry accepted best practice, and if PSI-PCI is "the" go-to organization and only one trusted by the USDOT then they are sort of writing the regulations on what is acceptable or not...that information should be publicly available.

I have no desire to self-teach how the inspection should be carried out, how to probe pitting deep inside the tank, or what have you, but specifications such as how deep any pitting can be before the tank fails the inspection should be knowable to not just those performing the inspections but those who are subject to it as well.

The specs for a hydro test are able to be referenced...why not the specs for a VIP?

-Z
 
So PSI-PCI are setting a standard for the dive industry (at least the US dive industry) by which shops inspect ones cylinders and can recommend them as not being serviceable and the organization does not have any codified list of standards to publish for the public to reference against in order to assess what an inspector tells them? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Since the DOT does not require visual inspection and it is just an industry accepted best practice, and if PSI-PCI is "the" go-to organization and only one trusted by the USDOT then they are sort of writing the regulations on what is acceptable or not...that information should be publicly available.

I have no desire to self-teach how the inspection should be carried out, how to probe pitting deep inside the tank, or what have you, but specifications such as how deep any pitting can be before the tank fails the inspection should be knowable to not just those performing the inspections but those who are subject to it as well.

The specs for a hydro test are able to be referenced...why not the specs for a VIP?

-Z

Nasty, Nasty, why are you trying to break their rice bowl?

They spent years convincing us that, without their "Help", our tanks would selfdistruct and thousands of us would be dying every year.

It's funny, with my 53 tanks, I'd end up working for more than 3 weeks in order to pay for annual VIPs and trimix fills.
Ask why I have had my own compressors for the last 30 years.

Michael
 
So PSI-PCI are setting a standard for the dive industry (at least the US dive industry) by which shops inspect ones cylinders and can recommend them as not being serviceable and the organization does not have any codified list of standards to publish for the public to reference against in order to assess what an inspector tells them? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Since the DOT does not require visual inspection and it is just an industry accepted best practice, and if PSI-PCI is "the" go-to organization and only one trusted by the USDOT then they are sort of writing the regulations on what is acceptable or not...that information should be publicly available.

I have no desire to self-teach how the inspection should be carried out, how to probe pitting deep inside the tank, or what have you, but specifications such as how deep any pitting can be before the tank fails the inspection should be knowable to not just those performing the inspections but those who are subject to it as well.

The specs for a hydro test are able to be referenced...why not the specs for a VIP?

-Z
I think it is more like their process and training is a recommended application of existing federal and manufacturer standards, rather than PSI setting those standards themselves. Their intellectual property is the process and the training, not the criteria. There are other sources of training in the US also, it is the endorsement of PSI by various entities that makes them unique.
I don't have it in front if me, but I believe you can find much of what you are linking for in their book "Inspecting Cylinders" for $20 in their website.

The bigger issue is all of the CGA recommendations that are included in federal law by reference, but require a significant $$$ purchase from CGA to read them.
 
So PSI-PCI are setting a standard for the dive industry (at least the US dive industry) by which shops inspect ones cylinders and can recommend them as not being serviceable and the organization does not have any codified list of standards to publish for the public to reference against in order to assess what an inspector tells them? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Since the DOT does not require visual inspection and it is just an industry accepted best practice, and if PSI-PCI is "the" go-to organization and only one trusted by the USDOT then they are sort of writing the regulations on what is acceptable or not...that information should be publicly available.

I have no desire to self-teach how the inspection should be carried out, how to probe pitting deep inside the tank, or what have you, but specifications such as how deep any pitting can be before the tank fails the inspection should be knowable to not just those performing the inspections but those who are subject to it as well.

The specs for a hydro test are able to be referenced...why not the specs for a VIP?

-Z



As a person who paid attention and found great value in the nearly 8 hours spent learning the necessity and methods of cylinder inspection--- I sincerely hope you DO NOT find the free answers you are looking for.

But I do hope you fill your cylinder rack full of vintage Luxfer tanks from the 1980's. I think those are in the range of cost and effort you are diving in.
 
There is a definitive criteria for the visual performed as part of hydrostatic testing. That is set by CGA standard C-6/C-6.1 and legally binding as part of the CFR.

The yearly visual that is pushed by PSI PCI is not part of the CFR nor is it legally binding.

Luxfer has a handy guide on inspecting their aluminum cylinders. There is also a published ISO guide for steel cylinders if you don't have access to the CGA materials.

https://www.luxfercylinders.com/img/rm_img/blog_img/455/attachments/1/scubaguide.pdf

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/004/iso.6406.2005.pdf
 
As a person who paid attention and found great value in the nearly 8 hours spent learning the necessity and methods of cylinder inspection--- I sincerely hope you DO NOT find the free answers you are looking for.

But I do hope you fill your cylinder rack full of vintage Luxfer tanks from the 1980's. I think those are in the range of cost and effort you are diving in.

What in the world is that all about? Why the hostility over someone looking for criteria that judgments are made against?
 
There is a definitive criteria for the visual performed as part of hydrostatic testing. That is set by CGA standard C-6/C-6.1 and legally binding as part of the CFR.

The yearly visual that is pushed by PSI PCI is not part of the CFR nor is it legally binding.

Luxfer has a handy guide on inspecting their aluminum cylinders. There is also a published ISO guide for steel cylinders if you don't have access to the CGA materials.

https://www.luxfercylinders.com/img/rm_img/blog_img/455/attachments/1/scubaguide.pdf

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/004/iso.6406.2005.pdf

Those links are exactly the type of reading that I was hoping for, especially the one from Luxfer.

Thanks for posting them.

-Z
 
So PSI-PCI are setting a standard for the dive industry (at least the US dive industry)
Since the DOT does not require visual inspection and it is just an industry accepted best practice, and if PSI-PCI is "the" go-to organization and only one trusted by the USDOT then they are sort of writing the regulations on what is acceptable or not...that information should be publicly available.


-Z

The DOT requires a visual inspection by law every 5 years in conjunction with the hydrostatic requalification (49CFR180.205(f)) or if other extenuating circumstances have occurred causing damage regardless of the requalification period (49CFR180.205(d)) . The dive industry, and supported by dive cylinder manufacturers, has adopted the standard of the annual visual inspection, although not required by law. PSI trains to the visual inspection criteria for the required 5 year inspection and hydrostatic requalification. This inspection criteria is found in multiple documents, but the primary ones used are:
29 CFR 1910 (Workplace Safety)
49 CFR Parts 172-190 (Transportation and Hazardous Materials)
CGA PAM C-6 (Incorporated by reference (IBR) in 49 CFR), Steel Cylinders
CGA PAM C-6.1 (IBR 49 CFR), Aluminum Cylinders
CGA PAM C-6.2 (IBR 49 CFR), Composite Cylinders
Associated DOT/PHMSA Special Permits where applicable
Manufactures specification s and requirements.
 

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