Prozac

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ABlue

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Hi,

I have a friend that is has just finished her OW and she is afraid to dive because she takes prozac... Her instructor tod her she could not take the pill before or after diving but her doctor does not know the inplications of diving with Prozac..
What is your opinion, is there a study about this?

Thks
 
ABlue:
Hi,

I have a friend that is has just finished her OW and she is afraid to dive because she takes prozac... Her instructor tod her she could not take the pill before or after diving but her doctor does not know the inplications of diving with Prozac..
What is your opinion, is there a study about this?

Thks

I wrote the article printed below for DAN's "Alert Diver," July/August 2003. It has been posted to the board on several prior occasions. It addresses some of the issues of which your friend may wish to be aware:


"Depression & Diving: Part II. Making the call on recreational diving.

In the March/April 2003 issue, Alert Diver took an in depth look at the nature, classification and treatment of depression, and briefly touched upon its implications for diving. In this follow up, we focus in detail on how the signs and symptoms of the condition, and their medical management, can impact safe scuba for the recreational diver and his buddy.

About one in 20 Americans show characteristics of a depressive disorder. And, because some antidepressants are used for other conditions as well, more than one in 15 takes such a medication.

As research suggests that the prevalence of depression in active divers does not significantly differ from that found in the general population, it is critical to understand what this disorder means for affected divers and the mental health professionals who treat them. During calendar year 2002, DAN Medical Services received 125-130 inquiries regarding diving with depression, and about an equal number specifically concerning the drugs used to treat it.

In a nutshell, depression is a disorder of mood. Sufferers complain of or are described by others as being down, blue, sad or empty, and as having reduced interest in or capacity to enjoy activities they once found pleasurable. Other features include disturbed sleep, changes in appetite and weight, feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness and guilt, thoughts of doing away with oneself, lack of energy, easy fatigue, loss of libido, restlessness, irritability, and difficulty in paying attention, concentrating and making decisions. In addition, depressive episodes can alternate with manic ones. With the latter, there can be groundless or excessive feelings of well-being and happiness, racing thoughts, poor judgment, recklessness, and a tendency to be easily distracted.

Of course not every individual will have all of these, and the severity ranges from mild to requiring hospitalization. The disorder is treated both by psychotherapy and medication, and often responds best to the combination.

The decision to dive or not largely takes care of itself at either extreme of the severity spectrum. However, those cases falling in between can be vexing, especially when the disorder is to varying degrees controlled by medication.

Issues related to the disorder itself

Among common signs and symptoms, indecisiveness and poorly sustained concentration perhaps rank highest on the list of concerns. Tracking and managing variables such as one's depth, location, air supply, NDLs and buddy status requires a high level of vigilance and sound, smooth decision-making. Deep underwater is not a benign place to suffer lapses in attention and decisional sharpness.

Divers revel in those seemingly effortless dives where perfect neutral buoyancy is achieved as we ride a gentle current past expanses of colorful reef. However, the requirement for vigorous activity is often just around the corner in the form of a wicked down current or buddy in need of rescue. I would not like my energy level or resistance to fatigue, or that of my buddy, to be reduced during scuba, and this can be seen in depression

Things don't always go smoothly while diving, either above or below water. Boats can arrive late, be crowded, and have dictatorial crew. Once down, the diver can inadvertently brush up against fire coral, get snagged in fishing line, or have an inconsiderate diver spoil a special photo opportunity. If irritability, which is quite common in depression, rears its head at minor provocation you have a diver who is not in optimal control.

Consideration must also be given to suicidal thought, intent and plan. Up to 9 percent of suicides in regions with easy access to water are due to drowning, and scuba offers a ready mechanism for death, one that can look to all the world like an accident. While good statistics are not available for obvious reasons, it is known that suicide accounts for a number of scuba deaths. It has been estimated that suicide may be responsible for as much as 17 percent of the deaths of professional divers in the United Kingdom. And, although not conclusive, investigations of a number of high profile scuba deaths, such as those of an ophthalmologist from Wisconsin (in Wisconsin), a psychiatrist from Missouri (in Thailand) and a couple from Louisiana (in Australia), all prominently raised the issue of possible suicide.

Finally, some persons with depression complain of bodily discomforts that have no demonstrable physical cause, including headache and joint pain. As these also can be features of DCS, report of them post-dive could result in an inappropriate trip to the chamber.

Issued related to pharmacological treatment

Drugs are frequently used to treat depression, and this raises additional concerns. Divers taking any medication should routinely investigate reported side effects.

Commonly prescribed antidepressants include three major classes: selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), tricyclics/tetracyclics/heterocyclics (TCAs/HCAs), and monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), along with a few uniquely acting compounds.

In general, SSRIs are currently more popular than the others due to their relatively greater safety (including in overdose) and tolerability, although they do cost more. MAOIs tend to be less frequently prescribed, in part because their interaction with certain foods, beverages and medications can cause severe high blood pressure. Examples of each class can be seen in Table 1.


Table 1
Prescribed Antidepressants


SSRIs:

Celexa® (citalopram)
Luvox® (fluvoxamine)
Paxil® (paroxetine)
Prozac® (fluoxetine)
Zoloft® (sertraline)

MAOIs:

Nardil® (phenelzine)
Parnate® (tranylcypromine)

TCAs/HCAs:

Adapin®, Sinequan® (doxepin)
Aventyl®, Pamelor® (nortriptyline)
Elavil®, Endep® (amitriptyline)
Ludiomil® (maprotiline)
Norpramin®, Pertofrane® (desipramine)
Remeron® (mirtazepine)

Others:

Desyrel® (trazodone)
Effexor® (venlafaxine)
Wellbutrin®, (bupropion)


Although the risk is very low, perhaps most worrisome is that the majority of medications prescribed for the condition have been shown to be associated with seizures, most particularly the SSRIs at high doses. The almost certain lethality of a convulsion underwater requires that serious attention be paid to this finding.

A second disturbing effect is drowsiness and reduced alertness, an adverse reaction known to occur with a number of antidepressants, notably the TCAs/HCAs. The SSRIs have this problem as well. Thirteen percent of patients with major depression treated with the world's most widely prescribed antidepressant (an SSRI) reported sleepiness, while research studies have demonstrated that such drugs can lead to decreased vigilance. Their effects can hinder higher cognitive functions as well, such as ability to master complex spatial tasks and to recall information learned a short while earlier.

Obviously, these medications impact on brain chemistry at ambient atmospheric pressure. It is not unreasonable to suspect the possibly that their effects could be potentiated by increased partial pressures of nitrogen and additive with those of nitrogen narcosis.

Drowsiness, dizziness, concentration disturbance and deficits in more complex cognition are among the reasons that package inserts for antidepressants contain warnings that the drug may impair the mental and/or physical abilities required for the performance of hazardous tasks, such as operating machinery or driving a car (and scuba?). The addition of medication-induced compromises of alertness, concentration and decision-making efficiency to impairments of these functions caused by the depression itself is quite troubling given a multitask recreation like scuba.

[CONTINUED IN NEXT POST]
 
Depression & Diving: Part II.+

Several studies suggest that increased brain levels of serotonin correspond with increased levels of fatigue during exercise, under some conditions diminishing endurance by as much as 32 percent. Again, adding deficits in stamina caused by SSRIs to those already inherent in depression could spell disaster in a scuba emergency.

An unusual and typically mild but nonetheless worrisome side effect of certain drugs used to combat depression, notably the SSRIs, can be a tendency toward increased bleeding. During scuba, blood vessels in the ears, lungs and sinuses are subject to strain as a result of changes in pressure related to depth and equalization techniques. What under normal circumstances might be undetectable bleeding could under the influence of antidepressants result in bleeding with accumulation and harm to tissues. And, this bleeding is not always obvious or painful; in fact can be hidden and painless. If the diver is also taking other drugs known to interfere with clotting, such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like aspirin and ibuprofen, there is a further increase in the risk of bleeding.

Side effects of some antidepressants can mimic DCS. All classes of antidepressants have shown adverse reactions involving the central nervous system such as headache, weakness and fatigue, dizziness, incoordination, abnormalities of vision, and numbness and tingling of the extremities.

The above discussion of medication could leave one with the impression that taking antidepressants automatically sinks the diver under the weight of adverse reactions. This is not necessarily the case. Many persons who take these drugs tolerate them well, and what side effects they do experience pass after several weeks of use. Moreover, altering dose size, the times at which doses are taken, and other steps sometimes can manage persistent side effects. Finally, the wide variety of available antidepressants allows the diver and his doctor to try different ones until adverse reactions are minimized.

Still, these are medications and they will have enduring, problematic side effects in some persons. As such, each individual must carefully monitor how or he responds to a prescription over time before engaging in activities for which side effects could pose a risk.

What can we prove?

Frankly, next to nothing. Sadly, there has been exceedingly little investigation of how depression and antidepressant drugs really affect the diver.

One animal study has suggested that increased serotonin levels related to SSRIs may contribute to high pressure nervous syndrome, a disorder sometimes seen in very deep dives on helium mixes but of very minimal relevance to the recreational diver. And, while it might be expected that chemicals that stimulate the brain (like serotonin and caffeine) could predispose to oxygen toxicity, a study on rats found that caffeine in fact reduced the risk.

There is only a single study I am aware of that assessed the interaction between a drug that acts on the human brain and the effects of partial pressures of nitrogen typical of recreational scuba. This involved dimenhydrinate (e.g., Dramamine Original Formula®), and demonstrated impaired alertness & performance. Although dimenhydrinate has been shown to interact with certain neurochemicals known to affect mood, including serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine, the exact mechanism of its effects under increased partial pressures of nitrogen is not entirely understood.

Where does this leave the recreational diver with depression and those advising him about safe scuba?

There appear to be 3 basic approaches to this question:

1. Assume that depression and the drugs used to ameliorate it do not pose a danger to scuba great enough to advise against diving:

This position is not defensible given what we know about the topside dangers of both depression and antidepressants. Because of a dearth of research and necessary reliance on theory, a number of dive medicine experts have expressed serious reservations about the wisdom of diving while suffering from depression, especially while medicated. The phenomenal popularity of modern antidepressants and their wide prescription by physicians not expert in their use suggests a somewhat cavalier attitude about these medicatons. Such an attitude can have grave result when it comes to pursuits like scuba.

2. Assume that depression and the drugs used to ameliorate it pose a danger to scuba great enough to advise not diving until the condition has entirely lifted and medication discontinued:

Qualified medical professionals rendering their best judgment in the absence of supportive science should not be too readily faulted for possibly erring on the side caution. Liability issues no doubt contribute to this stance, but at the least it does seem prudent and ethical medicine, whose overarching dictum is, "First, do no harm."

Along this line, in May 2001, based on a manufacturer reported seizure frequency of .4 percent at the highest recommended dose, the UK Sport Diving Medical Committee specifically advised against diving while using Wellbutrin®, deeming the risk "grossly excessive." It also made this recommendation regarding Zyban®, an aid to smoking cessation treatment that contains the same advise against diving.”

While it could be argued that this position is unduly conservative, it is not without a defense.

3. Assume that depression and the drugs used to ameliorate it do not preclude diving provided that: (a) mental status examination demonstrates the condition to be well controlled; (b) the diver on medication has been on for an extended period and side effects dangerous to scuba are neither reported nor observed upon careful examination; (c) there are no other contraindications in the clinical picture; and, (d) the diver feels he is up to it and fully comprehends the remaining risks.

I suspect that most divers will find this latter perspective the most appealing, and it is the one I’d want applied to myself if ill. It also seems to be gaining interest in the dive medicine community. A version appears on Diving Medicine Online (also reproduced in part as a DAN Diving Medicine Article). Dr. Campbell’s position on fitness to dive in persons with depression is that decisions be based on the "merits of each case." This includes considering "... the type of drugs required, the response to medication and the length of time free of depressive or manic incidents" and "... decision-making ability, responsibility for other divers, and drug-induced side effects that could limit a diver's ability to gear up and move in the water." He goes on to say that, "Most, particularly those divers who have responded well to medications over a long term, probably could receive clearance to dive."

In any such deliberation, it is important that the diver be entirely honest with treating sources, training agencies, dive ops and himself.

The jury is still out. For the foreseeable future, decisions on the recreational diver with depression will remain individual determinations meager of science and rich of professional judgment."

This piece is very much more comprehensive than anything specific for depression that yet appears on DAN's website, but you may see what they have by going to----> http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/m...sp?articleid=31

Best regards.

DocVikingo
 
My 2 psi:

Given the popularity of SSRIs, there are probably thousands of dives a day conducted by people who are on SSRIs. While that doesn't prove anything conclusively, it does suggest that they aren't inherantly harmful.

I'd be most worried about someone bumping their meds up (or skipping them) and precipitating a manic episode or panic attack underwater. I have a lot of friends who have been treated for depression, and most of them I wouldn't have any issues with diving with them -- I'd say that more commonly mild depression tends to make people a lot more thoughtful and deliberate, which I'd view as actually being beneficial underwater...
 
lamont:
My 2 psi:

Given the popularity of SSRIs, there are probably thousands of dives a day conducted by people who are on SSRIs. While that doesn't prove anything conclusively, it does suggest that they aren't inherantly harmful.

I'd be most worried about someone bumping their meds up (or skipping them) and precipitating a manic episode or panic attack underwater. I have a lot of friends who have been treated for depression, and most of them I wouldn't have any issues with diving with them -- I'd say that more commonly mild depression tends to make people a lot more thoughtful and deliberate, which I'd view as actually being beneficial underwater...

How interesting that you'd "say that more commonly mild depression tends to make people a lot more thoughtful and deliberate, which I'd view as actually being beneficial underwater." Have you any research support for this conjecture since most of the literature I am familiar with indicates that poor concentration and difficulty in making decisions are common in depression?

Thanks,

DocVikingo
 
ABlue:
Her instructor tod her she could not take the pill before or after diving but her doctor does not know the inplications of diving with Prozac..

I would recommend following DV's advice.

Specifically with Prozac ...

The half-life of the drug [so the amount of time it takes to get the drug out of your system] is exceptionally long (2-3 days with an active metabolite that has an even greater half-life). Missing a dose of Prozac does not change the steady-state level much - so the instructor's advice is not applicable to this drug as she will experience the effect of the medication for several days after her last dose. Other drugs in the same family (SSRIs) have shorter half-lives but the result is similar.
 
DocVikingo:
How interesting that you'd "say that more commonly mild depression tends to make people a lot more thoughtful and deliberate, which I'd view as actually being beneficial underwater." Have you any research support for this conjecture since most of the literature I am familiar with indicates that poor concentration and difficulty in making decisions are common in depression?

Thanks,

DocVikingo

i can't quote a citation. a study was done showing that mildly depressed / dysthemic patients actually got into fewer car accidents than controls. the authors did some other tests, and conjectured that it was due to a tendency for them to be more deliberate. its been way too many years for me to even guess what journal that might have been in.
 
lamont:
i can't quote a citation. a study was done showing that mildly depressed / dysthemic patients actually got into fewer car accidents than controls. the authors did some other tests, and conjectured that it was due to a tendency for them to be more deliberate. its been way too many years for me to even guess what journal that might have been in.

By "dysthemic" I presume that you actually mean "dysthymic" as Dysthymic Disorder is the technically proper diagnosis for most forms of "mild depression." Per the current Diagnostic & Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR; American Psychiatric Association; 2000) the main symptom of dysthymia is low, dark, or sad mood nearly every day for at least 2 years. Other symptoms can include (bold lettering mine): poor appetite or overeating, insomnia or hypersomnia, low energy or fatigue, low self-esteem, poor concentration & feelings of hopelessness.

If you are interested in this topic, you might find "Mental Health and Productivity in the Workplace: A Handbook for Organizations and Clinicians" by Jeffrey P. Kahn, M.D. and Alan M. Langlieb, M.D., M.P.H., M.B.A., Editors San Francisco: Jossey-Bass/Wiley (2003) to be informative. The article (#14) by Stephen Heidel, M.D., MBA (an occupational psychiatrist) seems especially appropriate to this discussion as these indicate that depressed workers are more prone to accidents due to lack of concentration, fatigue, failing memory and slow reaction time.

Also, "Depression: The unseen safety risk" by Todd Nighswonger http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...workplace&hl=en

The NALU (National Association of Life Underwriters) provides the following guidelines for its members indicating that those with a diagnosis of depression should be insured only for more limited policies and at higher premiums:

"Underwriting and depression: (2002) WHY CAN'T CLIENTS WITH A DEPRESSION HISTORY QUALIFY FOR PREFERRED?

The short answer is that depressed people experience a death rate twice that observed in the general population from both natural and accidental causes. There are three primary types of depression:

Dysthymia - a low grade depression present for at least two years.

Major Depression - A more extreme version of Dysthymia that can be either unipolar or bipolar. Bipolar is classified as having one or more periods of elevated or irritable mood.

Seasonal affective disorder - Major depression which occurs at specific seasons.

The increased mortality from natural causes is due to common conditions such as heart disease, lung infections and influenza. Accidental deaths are probably related to greater risk taking behavior. Clients with a psychiatric illness are more likely to be either victims or perpetrators of violence and are more prone to abuse alcohol and drugs."

I suspect that your comment, "Given the popularity of SSRIs, there are probably thousands of dives a day conducted by people who are on SSRIs," is correct. What we don't know is what implications depression alone, SSRIs alone or the two in combination have upon diver safety. Until we do, approach #3 to clearance to dive in my article above strikes me as far more grounded in the admittedly limited evidence, not to mention ethical and prudent, than the blanket assumption that "more commonly mild depression tends to make people a lot more thoughtful and deliberate, which I'd view as actually being beneficial underwater."

If you were a psychiatrist and told scuba diving patients such a thing, your malpractice carrier and organization's professional risk manager would tear out their hair, go into syncope and after regaining consciousness threaten your coverage. On the other hand, the local malpractice attorneys would put you on their holiday mailing list.

Best regards.

DocVikingo
 
DocVikingo:
Other symptoms can include: poor appetite or overeating, insomnia or hypersomnia, low energy or fatigue, low self-esteem, poor concentration & feelings of hopelessness.

I changed the emphasis slightly.

I'm fully aware that I'm not giving an answer that any psychiatrist would be comfortable in giving. I'm also basing my answer on my experience with my immediate social group. Most of the depressives in that group are mildly depressed and dysthemic and don't have significant symptoms of low energy and lack of concentration -- probably there's a lot of self-selection there since they're generally college-educated, generally with significant post-grad work, which means they're not going to have depressive symptoms that interfere with their education. Among that group of depressives are people that I would trust a whole lot more than people I know who aren't depressives.

Clearly, the umbrella of "depression" and even "dysthemia" encompasses many different groups. Your milage may vary a whole lot.

You may like the textbook answer that depressives should always be considered higher risk -- I'd rather take each individual case on its own unique merits and if the depressive does not have symptoms which are obvious contraindications like poor concentration and fatigue they may make perfectly fine scubadivers.

At the same time I'm obviously free of liability concerns so I can deal with the frequency of the use of prozac in diving a little more grounded in reality. I would never claim that prozac is safe. I would never suggest that someone go diving while on prozac without talking to their doctor first. I would advise them to take it very slowly -- they should start with very conservative dives under the supervision of DMs or Rescue trained divers that are aware of the meds and that the person needs additional supervision. In my opinion, though, I don't think that SSRIs are going to present enough of a risk to be an absolute contraindication to diving -- its going to depend on the individuals own unique risk assessment.
 
You state:

"You may like the textbook answer that depressives should always be considered higher risk -- I'd rather take each individual case on its own unique merits and if the depressive does not have symptoms which are obvious contraindications like poor concentration and fatigue they may make perfectly fine scubadivers."


I have several issues with these remarks:

1. For a second time I call your attention to alternative #3 in my above article, which reads as follows:

"3. Assume that depression and the drugs used to ameliorate it do not preclude diving provided that: (a) mental status examination demonstrates the condition to be well controlled; (b) the diver on medication has been on for an extended period and side effects dangerous to scuba are neither reported nor observed upon careful examination; (c) there are no other contraindications in the clinical picture; and, (d) the diver feels he is up to it and fully comprehends the remaining risks.

I suspect that most divers will find this latter perspective the most appealing, and it is the one I’d want applied to myself if ill. It also seems to be gaining interest in the dive medicine community. A version appears on Diving Medicine Online (also reproduced in part as a DAN Diving Medicine Article). Dr. Campbell’s position on fitness to dive in persons with depression is that decisions be based on the "merits of each case." This includes considering "... the type of drugs required, the response to medication and the length of time free of depressive or manic incidents" and "... decision-making ability, responsibility for other divers, and drug-induced side effects that could limit a diver's ability to gear up and move in the water." He goes on to say that, "Most, particularly those divers who have responded well to medications over a long term, probably could receive clearance to dive."

What about this fails to consider the unique, individual case on its own merits?

2. Let's next consider your assertion of my preference for a "textbook answer that depressives should always be considered higher risk." Based on the evidence in the public domain rather than on your personal "experience with my immediate social group," which you go on to admit is not representative of the affective disorder population at large, it seems pretty hard to conclude anything else but that as a group depressed divers on medication very likely are at higher risk, albeit unquantified, than divers who have no mood disorder and take no psychotropic medications.

Do you read the evidence otherwise?

If so, you're at odds not only with me, but also with world-recognized diving medicine experts Dr. Ernest Campbell (aka Scubadoc) and Dr. Alfred A. Bove, and such diving medicine bodies as Diver's Alert Network & the UK Sports Diving Medical Committee, amongst others.

Moreover and more importantly, "increased risk" in depressed divers on SSRIs is NOT the immediate discussion that we are having. My initial posts to you simply asked for empirical support for and questioned the wisdom of your comment suggesting "decreased risk." Specifically your comment that, "...more commonly mild depression tends to make people a lot more thoughtful and deliberate, which I'd view as actually being beneficial underwater."

In all of your posting thus far you have yet to defend this particular assertion, which at present I view as somewhat reckless, in any meaningful fashion.

If you can do so, I’d be more than happy to reconsider my position.

3. Finally, for a second time I call your attention to my statement: "By 'dysthemic' I presume that you actually mean 'dysthymic' as Dysthymic Disorder is the technically proper diagnosis for most forms of 'mild depression.'

If you're not going to attend to what I am writing, obviously we cannot understand each other clearly or reach any resolution on our differences.

Best regards.

DocVikingo
 

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