Preventing diver deaths in reality

[gcbryan]

Before I beat this pony bottle thing to death in an effort to bring a little more discussion/thought to the subject...

What would actually have made a bigger difference in preventing the last 3 diver deaths in your area?

There is no right answer because whatever your choice you can say that it could have prevented the accident and no one can say that you're wrong because anything COULD have made a difference.

Here in the PNW we had someone run out of air at 100 fsw and refuse at a certain point to continue breathing from her buddies octo. She pushed away from her buddy and went for the surface holding her breath...death.

She could have been exposed to Gas Management. She could have practiced air share drills. She could have had a pony.

A new diver had anxiety problems and decided to try to overcome those by diving solo and shallow in the daytime in a cove while his wife/girlfriend watched from shore. He popped up and down waving to her each time until one time when he called for help and ended up drowning (OOA).

He could have been exposed to Gas Management. He could have practiced air share drills. He could have had a pony.

Several divers decided to do a 200 fsw wall dive at night on air with at least one on an aluminum 80. One diver needed rescuing on the bottom. The rescuing diver was the one with the aluminum 80. He went OOA and died.

He could have been exposed to Gas Management. He could have practiced air share drills. He could have had a pony.

All of these deaths were preventable and they all were ridiculous in how they went down.

Having a pony bottle wouldn't address the underlying problem in any of those cases and yet it's the most likely choice of the 3 choices to have saved a few lives.

More than likely none of these people would have done anything different if they had gone to a Gas Management seminar because what they did wasn't the least bit rational. Practicing air sharing (where applicable) while a good thing isn't likely to have prevented any of these either (again because of the extremely poor judgment that lead to these deaths).

So while Gas Management and Air Share drills are worthwhile and are the most productive things that most of us can do, in these extreme situations (which is what most deaths are) the pony bottle option probably would have saved more people.

That's the way it is in the real world and of course you could argument that some of these divers may not have gone for the pony bottle either.

 

[fyrdyvr]

For me it all still boils down to your training. If you learn from the start to constantly check your gauges, always plan to surface with 500 psi left in your tank, learn air sharing procedures, plan your dives with your buddy and have a back up plan for emergencies.

Diving is dangerous. We are somewhere doing something that our bodies were never meant to do. But if we take the neccessary precautions and don't push the limits of our training and skills we can lessen the danger.

Just my .02 worth.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I think the real killers here were depth and diving beyond his or her capabilities. I doubt a pony would have made much if any difference.

In the bolt for the surface case, she should not have been at 100'. Going to 200 with a single AL 80 is stupid. Even dumber as it was no doubt on air. Thinking you can help another diver on air with a single 80 at 200' is just begging for a double fatality.

Overcoming anxiety by diving solo is again really stupid.

 

[Tortuga68]

training

What he said

 

[DiverDurf]

Would a pony bottle have helped? "Maybe" is my guess. If they had a pony we have to presume they would have practiced with it to become efficient using it in an emergency. We would also have to presume they would have had the presence of mind to switch over while keeping their cool. The case of the female who refused her buddy's octo and bolted.......nah, a pony probably wouldn't have saved her since it sounds as though panic took over. The one where the AL 80 tank guy went 200' to "save" his buddy.......ridiculous to plan a dive at that depth on a 80 tank to begin with, so I doubt they were smart enough to incorporate the use of a pony either. Lastly, the guy trying to get over his anxieties by diving solo, and then waving frantically to his girlfriend on shore who obviously hadn't been taught any kind of diver distress signaling before he entered the water........nope, that was just Darwin at work there (sadly).

 

[Tortuga68]

That's the way it is in the real world and of course you could argument that some of these divers may not have gone for the pony bottle either

Yep

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but do you really put yourself in the same category as someone who "refused at a certain point to continue breathing from her buddies octo... pushed away from her buddy and went for the surface holding her breath"?

Because if so a pony probably isn't the answer

 

[tstormdiver]

There haven't been any deaths in my immediate local area since I've been diving (3yrs), that I've been aware of. The closest diving deaths anywhere "near" have been caused by regulator freeze- ups & free flows. In these instances, training on diving in cold waters & breathing off a free flowing regulator may have helped the victims. Breathing off a free flowing regulator, especially in an emergency event, isn't fun. I had a recent freeze- up & free flow & was able to handle it (with the help of my technical instructor), & breathe off of of it. Not what I would call a fun experience, but certainly survivable if you don't freak out. It's loud, it's noisy & will drain a cylinder very quickly. I'm glad that skill was covered recently in my instructor course. Before that, I hadn't practiced it since my Open water class 3yrs ago. Cold water diving can be a reality here if a diver wants to dive further into the season or year round or if they plan to do deeper dives (below 50 ft). Although the rare "weird issue" that can not be planned for can come up unexpectedly,.... training, practice & proper equipment for the dive undertaken would probably eliminate over 90% of these deaths.

 

[Tortuga68]

There certainly seem to be many death reports where people are pulled up with air in their tanks, which would suggest that a pony wouldn't have helped

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

I think a key question is:

Will a panicking diver have the presence of mind to pull a functioning regulator out of their mouth and replace it with the pony regulator, while also turning the pony tank on?

I don’t think so.

I agree with Byran 100% that gas management and air share drills really do need to be taught at a basic level, but I doubt such training would have overruled a dash to the depths with an 80 to save someone, or stop a panicking diver bolting for the blue sky. My personal 2 cents is people with panic disorders should not dive, but I know I’m alone on this.

Unfortunately for pony’s, gas management and air sharing skills to work they must be taught again and again and again until they become second nature: not something that can be taught in today’s OW courses.

Cheers,
Rohan.

 

[Diver0001]

What would actually have made a bigger difference in preventing the last 3 diver deaths in your area?

5 of the last 6 that I know of were caused by heart-attacks. Getting yearly physicals and/or doing something about physical fitness would probably have helped. In one case it was discovered after the fact that the diver knew he had a serious heart condition and he kept it a secret.

There was some speculation that #6 could have been a suicide but what was clear is that there was a buddy separation and drowning. His body was found almost 4 months later. In this case, assuming there wasn't any other problem then following the training and surfacing after a buddy separation would have avoided it.

In terms of other incidents, I would say DCS is the most common type of accident we have around here. In a majority of cases of DCS the issues can be traced back to not following training. In some cases it can be traced to equipment problems (weightbelt falling off) or in rare cases to training issues (lack of buoyancy control). The stats might be skewed though because they record cases of "preventative" pot rides as accidents.

R..