Poseidon cyklon 5000 first and 2nd stages diff. old and new

[dirtydiver]

Hello, thinking about buying a poseidon cyklon 5000 and have noticed diff # on the first stage, any year model better than another , why am I looking at this reg?its been around along time and something diff to use . Thanks in advance for all opinions

 

[tbone1004]

short answer is yes, long answer is sort of. Need to know which number is on the first stage or a picture of it. Some are unbalanced, some are non-standard metric threads for the hoses requiring adapters to be used. Also bear in mind that you can not use normal regulators with the Cyklons as matched pairs, this includes all Air2's, needs to be a cyklon or a semi-upstream design i.e. jetstream/xstream as your secondary.

 

[Bob DBF]

short answer is yes, long answer is sort of. Need to know which number is on the first stage or a picture of it. Some are unbalanced, some are non-standard metric threads for the hoses requiring adapters to be used. Also bear in mind that you can not use normal regulators with the Cyklons as matched pairs, this includes all Air2's, needs to be a cyklon or a semi-upstream design i.e. jetstream/xstream as your secondary.

Normally I would have just read this post and moved on, but now you have me interested. Is the use of Cyklon seconds mandatory for all Cyklon's, 5000's, or just certain numbers? The reason I am interested is that I picked up a Cyjlon 300 reg set in a bag of "vintage junk", had the cyclon inspected and tuned by a tech ($70) and rebuilt the 109 second myself. It is one of the best reg sets I have used. Now I wonder if this is just a fluke, as I thought not knowing anything much, that the 5000 was just a better version of the 300. I know that the old Cyklon seconds are different than the new ones, but not when changes were made or how different they are.

So if I picked up up a 5000, would I be able to use a 109 as a second, or is this similar to the OP's question?


Thanks

Bob
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There is no problem that can't be solved with a liberal application of sex, tequila, money, duct tape, or high explosives, not necessarily in that order.

 

[runsongas]

the cyklon 2nd stages run at a high IP (170 to 180 psi iirc) is why they don't play well with other types of 2nd stages. if you take a cyklon 300 or 5000 first stage and tune it to 135 psi, it will work with other 2nd stages just fine.

 

[Bob DBF]

the cyklon 2nd stages run at a high IP (170 to 180 psi iirc) is why they don't play well with other types of 2nd stages. if you take a cyklon 300 or 5000 first stage and tune it to 135 psi, it will work with other 2nd stages just fine.

I was assuming that the Poseidon tech tuned the reg properly as I only sent the Poseidon first and second. I just checked and it has an IP of 140. I just read over the 300 tuning and from what little I understand, once the first and second are tuned properly, the IP can be set between 125 and 160 PSI. I won't be messing with it until I have an issue, and plenty of time to play with it.



Bob

 

[Luis H]

The Cyklon 300 is not balanced first stage. As the tank pressure goes down, the IP goes up.

At what tank pressure did you check the IP?

The 109 has the adjustable spring tension, so it probably work fine with a slightly higher IP.

The Cyklon 5000 is the newer balanced diaphragm first stage. BTW, the balancing in this first stage is actually not very good (the IP is still affected by tank pressure), but the Cyklon second stage can be such a good performer that some changes in IP go unnoticed.

All the Cyklon second stages are basically the same. The older ones were metal body, but they are now available with metal or plastic body. The gut are basically the same in all of them (from about 1957 to today).


I have a couple of sets of Cyklon regulators… well actually, I use Conshelf first stages with Cyklon second stage. I adjusted the Conshelf to about 165 psi and it is rock solid IP at any tank pressure. I just have not found a first stage that I like better than a Conshelf.

The Cyklon second stages work great with this constant IP.

BTW, the Cyklon 300 label meant that the first stage was good for 300 bar. The newer Cyklon 5000 means that it is good for 5000 psi.

 

[Bob DBF]

It was a full LP95 so tank pressure was around 2400#, was not paying close attention, will try the reg out on a low tank later to see what happens. Since I use the 109 as a backup, I adjust to stop accidental free flows and adjust it for use when I switch so that might be why I don't see any issues with that reg.

When I finish all the gear I have on my to do list, I'll have to learn a lot more about the Cyklons 'cause it has impressed me. Now if I can just get lucky and find another "pile 'o junk" deal with a cyklon in it.


Thanks

Bob

 

[tbone1004]

so the second stages like mentioned above are basically the same as they were 60 years ago when they came out. Parts kits are the same, all of the parts are interchangeable. The only change has been in the first stages where they went from the unbalanced firsts over to I think they're still using the 3960 first *or whatever number that one is, can't ever remember since they change the number based on what kit it comes with*.

The reason they don't play nice because they are supposed to be set at a rather high IP for them to work properly and most second stages aren't compatible with that high IP. Nominal IP on a balanced first stage is 160-165psi I think which will cause most seconds to freeflow. Not very familiar with the 109, but you might have tuned it back so it's fine.