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Scuba Doobie Do

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I've done a variety of dives and I'm getting pretty comfortable now. I've greatly improved my SAC and bouyancy, though I have far to go. I have only been diving while on vacations, so my plan is to start quarry diving locally (Ohio) to hone my skills and learn new skills.

Problem is, I've noticed that all I've ever been is a follower! My certification classes taught me how to "plan" a trip...how to use my computer or tables to figure out how long I can stay under at different depths. I am very comfortable with that concept and how to follow my computer. I don't really know what else is involved in planning a dive.

I intend to start diving locally with my gf (dive buddy) and we will have to practice planning dives and leading each other. Is there anything more to planning a dive in a quarry than planning what depth to go to, and what pressure to turn the dive or begin ascent? What other info do I need to plan? What other skills should we be learning to make us a more rounded buddy team without a DM?

It only gets more complicated as I leave quarries and do more vacation dives. What kind of additional things do you need to research and plan when diving as a buddy team, without a DM?
 
A more "cogent" ascent strategy than coming back to the surface with no less than 500psi/33bar:
 
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Problem is, I've noticed that all I've ever been is a follower! My certification classes taught me how to "plan" a trip...how to use my computer or tables to figure out how long I can stay under at different depths. I am very comfortable with that concept and how to follow my computer. I don't really know what else is involved in planning a dive.

I tend to not go to vacation dive locations, except maybe the Keys where I never have a DM. I do sometimes hire guides. Having said that, over 90% of my dives have been without a DM leading a group. My dives are either a quarry or a boat.
1. With a quarry know what direction is home. If you know that going SE gets you back to the entry you are never lost.
2. From a boat in NC. It is anchored. Depth is 80 - 100+ ft.
-Know how you are going to get back to the boat. This may be navigation. It may be laying a line. It may be good viz or low viz. It will depend on dive conditions.
-Take some time when you go down to see how the anchor line is set up. Helps when looking for it later.
-Know what you will do if you do not find the anchor line. Do you have a DMSB? Do you know how to use it.
-Plan what you will do it you get separated and loose contact with your buddy. The PADI advice of going up and waiting is a receipie for a cluster in 100 ft of water with any current. Typically we meet at the anchor. Maybe one stays put and the other looks. It can happen in low viz or even decent viz. A shark swims by. You stop and watch. Buddy goes around a corner. Have a plan.
-Stay alert during a dive. any one of a number of things can lead to a change. If viz is low maybe you stay closer to the entry. etc.

A little training never hurts
-navigation
-search and recovery (use of lift bags and some more navigation0
-solo
-rescue
 
Great reply Steve. I'll just add that maybe stay shallow for several dives to get used to being buddies without a DM. That's what I did with my buddy right out of OW course. But we were also getting used to the basics, which it seems you have. Remember to always stay close, especially in low viz. Too close is better that too far. All the buddy skills learned mean nothing of course if you get separated. Perhaps course materials and some instructors don't emphasize that enough. In the Nitrox course there may be 4 pages worth of "always verify the contents of your tank personally".
It has at times been frustrating for me to see a buddy's fins disappear into the fog.
My personal favourite formation is one buddy leads with the "follower" to one side and just slightly behind. This prevents the leader from twisting the head far around every time to check the buddy. It's easier to follow IMO. If leading, I am OCD on checking that the buddy is right there--maybe every 10 seconds. Really great viz of course give you a bit more latitude.
I don't recall ever using anything more that the very basic signals, but it's good to review them anyway.
I have only done one guided dive years ago. And one bozo messed that up. According to what I read on scubaboard, I think you may prefer diving "guideless" after a while. Good luck.
 
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I intend to start diving locally with my gf (dive buddy) and we will have to practice planning dives and leading each other. Is there anything more to planning a dive in a quarry than planning what depth to go to, and what pressure to turn the dive or begin ascent? What other info do I need to plan? What other skills should we be learning to make us a more rounded buddy team without a DM?

I personally wouldn't plan anything like that if I was doing a recreational dive in a quarry.

I'd check I had some gas and I'd jump in. I'd keep an eye on my computer to make sure I didn't get more than a few minutes of required decompression stops.

I'd turn the dive when I got bored/cold or when I felt the gas was getting a bit low.
 
I personally wouldn't plan anything like that if I was doing a recreational dive in a quarry.

I'd check I had some gas and I'd jump in. I'd keep an eye on my computer to make sure I didn't get more than a few minutes of required decompression stops.

I'd turn the dive when I got bored/cold or when I felt the gas was getting a bit low.

Not this. No offense, but if this was meant seriously, it is idiotic advice for a pair of new divers seeking guidance on how to conduct their first dives without supervision. If it was a joke, sorry if I didn't get it.

Gas planning is only a part - an important part, but only a part - of planning your dive.

Vis a vis the video above, it would be a huge disservice to the OP to have this thread go off on some tangent about UTD's Min Deco philosophy. I'll simply say that you can read all about it on other threads and that it is not without (a ton of) controversy. It should not be controversial to suggest out that unless/until you get some training on it, and make an informed decision as to whether it is a sensible thing, you would be wise to stick with what you learned in training about calculating NDLs and ascent strategy, which was likely to observe the NDL limits on your computer/tables and end the dive by ascending at 33'/min with a 3-5 minute safety stop at 15-20'.

The larger point of the video, and perhaps the reason it was posted was a good one, however. Be a thoughtful diver. The "rock bottom" concept of having enough gas to get you and a buddy to the surface - safely - rather than some arbitrary number is a good one. But, you don't have to adopt the whole "min deco" thing in order to do some math and figure out a realistic & prudent turn pressure.

That's just one part of dive planning/leading. Mostly, it is about the mind-meld so that you and your buddy have a common objective, expectations, comfort, etc., and addressing some potential contingencies.

A few random thoughts to think/talk through:

What's the plan if there's a problem? Where are you leaving the car keys and cell phone? Are there other people around to help if there is an emergency?

What's the goal of the dive? Are we checking out the sunk car, practicing skills, etc? Have some sort of general expectation at least -- " we're going to surface swim to the buoy, descend on the platform, then head left and look for the xzy" or whatever. What's "Plan B" if we can't find the car, or whatever? It's far easier to figure this out on the the surface than to descend, look at each other and start shrugging shoulders.

Are there any particular hazards? Current, overhead environments, etc?

If needed, establish ground rules ("I'm not comfortable penetrating that wreck" or "I'd like to limit the dive to XZY time")

What is our plan if we get separated? Discuss this every time.

Who is leading? Maybe take turns. Both of you are equally responsible for maintaining awareness, keeping track of location, being aware of NDLs and gas supply, etc.

Equipment/buddy check before entry. Valves on? Regs and BCD inflator working? Gas supply sufficient? Bubble check? Nothing loose or dangling?

Pay attention to whatever navigational "assets" you have to get you back to where you started without a long surface swim.

Observe each other and periodically make eye contact and/or do an "okay" check. Watching your buddy from behind may not tell you if they are stressed, scared, or otherwise uncomfortable. Making periodic eye contact and affirmatively asking will give you a lot more information. This can become less frequent later, but for now when you are probably both a little nervous, it is a good thing.

Also ask periodically what their tank pressure is. It is useful information to you (because their gas consumption may be the limiting factor) and it is a polite way of ensuring that they are monitoring their gauge.

Remember either of you can end the dive at any time. No questions asked, ever. Make sure you empower your buddy on this. Expressly tell each other that it's fine to thumb the dive and no one should feel any pressure to continue if they are uncomfortable. Your GF will be more comfortable on the dive knowing she has the power to end it if she becomes uneasy.

Bring a slate or wetnotes. Especially early in the process when your hand signals may not provide enough underwater vocabulary.

If you are planning on practicing skills, discuss that in advance. Your GF will not appreciate it if you initiate an air sharing drill without having warned it her it might be happening (although eventually having standing permission to simulate OOA on local dives can be good practice).

After the dive, talk about what went well and what didn't -- with the plan, with communication, gear, whatever. Talk about it and fix it.

It won't take long to feel much more comfortable, just start with simple dives. A lot of divers forget how intimidating it can be the first time you do it on your own. Have fun with it and in no time much of this will become automatic.
 
I've done a variety of dives and I'm getting pretty comfortable now. I've greatly improved my SAC and bouyancy, though I have far to go. I have only been diving while on vacations, so my plan is to start quarry diving locally (Ohio) to hone my skills and learn new skills.

Problem is, I've noticed that all I've ever been is a follower! My certification classes taught me how to "plan" a trip...how to use my computer or tables to figure out how long I can stay under at different depths. I am very comfortable with that concept and how to follow my computer. I don't really know what else is involved in planning a dive.

I intend to start diving locally with my gf (dive buddy) and we will have to practice planning dives and leading each other. Is there anything more to planning a dive in a quarry than planning what depth to go to, and what pressure to turn the dive or begin ascent? What other info do I need to plan? What other skills should we be learning to make us a more rounded buddy team without a DM?

It only gets more complicated as I leave quarries and do more vacation dives. What kind of additional things do you need to research and plan when diving as a buddy team, without a DM?
A good idea, if you want to do your own dives is put the time in with research.
1) Research the site with regards to tides/currents. Make sure you know what time slack water and high tide are and when it is incoming and outgoing. Plan, if possible, to use the tides/current to your advantage especially on the return leg where you should always be going with the current.
2) Research your own diving - work out your SAC/RMV which should give you a rough idea of times. for example if you know that with a certain tank you will get 40mins @15m then you know that on a similar dive you have approx 20 mins out and 20 mins back (or 4 ten minute legs for a square or 3 thirteen minute legs for a triangular pattern).
3) Gas planning - you pick a reserve pressure (which might depend on depth/conditions/experience etc). Assuming a 50 bar reserve from a 230 bar cylinder, means 180 bar usable gas. Therefore your turn pressure for a straight out and back dive is 140 bar (50 + 1/2 usable gas). If you are doing square it is 1/4 usable gas and triangular would be 1/3 usable gas. So you plan to make your turns based on the fraction of the usable gas or time depending what comes first.

Make sure you practise predive checklists and hand signals (in particular for pressures and emergencies) - nothing worse than looking at a buddy that has no clue as to what that signal actually meant.
Work out a lost buddy plan - you never know when you might need it.
 
A more "cogent" ascent strategy than coming back to the surface with no less than 500psi/33bar:

This is great information but agree with jgttrey that I better be fully comfortable with the accepted norms here before playing with other profiles. I would love to learn more about had consumption, however, and how to better calculate those aspects of my dive.

I tend to not go to vacation dive locations, except maybe the Keys where I never have a DM. I do sometimes hire guides.

Yeah maybe I'm kinda compounding the concepts of a DM and guide but I kinda need to replace both tasks. Thanks for all the other great advice!

Remember to always stay close, especially in low viz.

This is something not necessarily related to planning that we both need to work hard on... We've been lucky enough to be mostly in 80-300ft visibility and haven't done the best at keeping together. Part of what I want us to practice is staying close.

I'd check I had some gas and I'd jump in. I'd keep an eye on my computer to make sure I didn't get more than a few minutes of required decompression stops.

Hants, this is precisely what I'm trying to avoid...

jgttrey, you bring up some great points too... Never thought about where I need to leave my keys haha.

Couple more thoughts:

In a quarry, how complex would you make your plan? Should I know exactly what features I want to see and how long I want to spend at each? Or just more basic plans since I can shears surface swim?

How do I properly monitor our gasgas consumpt rates to better utilize that information for planning?

How do you plan where to go on an unguided dive when often times the boat captain doesn't even give you a dive site until you're en route? Do you just need to heavily research all the possible dive locations beforehand?
 
That's just one part of dive planning/leading. Mostly, it is about the mind-meld so that you and your buddy have a common objective, expectations, comfort, etc., and addressing some potential contingencies.
This. Most definitely this. You can get out of most tricky situations if you have this in mind. When underwater stick with your buddy and make sure they stick with you (this may mean swimming after them, if they get distracted - do it now, and talk about it when on the surface).

Stick to your training. If you and your buddy went through different training, have a long discussion about it before you suit up and decide on your procedures.

Yes, there may be other more advanced ways to do things, but without quite a few dives under your belt, it's difficult to know what is going to work best for you. After over 100 dives, most of the procedures we use are what we were taught during OWC, with a few things from the more advanced classes. I don't deny that I could get better, but the type of diving I do is far easier than most and it would be overkill. For me, it's all about air consumption when active underwater (i.e. with a camera).

Observe each other and periodically make eye contact and/or do an "okay" check. Watching your buddy from behind may not tell you if they are stressed, scared, or otherwise uncomfortable. Making periodic eye contact and affirmatively asking will give you a lot more information. This can become less frequent later, but for now when you are probably both a little nervous, it is a good thing.

Also ask periodically what their tank pressure is. It is useful information to you (because their gas consumption may be the limiting factor) and it is a polite way of ensuring that they are monitoring their gauge.
These are all amazingly important. It's very easy to get so distracted while down there that you forget to check your air. Your buddy can help remind you of that. Even if you dive regularly with the same buddy and feel that you know their air consumption rate relative to yours, still check - different dives have different consumption rates for all sorts of different reasons.

If you ever feel like you know enough about diving and can stop learning, that is the time to start being very wary, because there is always more to learn.
 
How do I properly monitor our gas consumption rates to better utilize that information for planning?

How do you plan where to go on an unguided dive when often times the boat captain doesn't even give you a dive site until you're en route? Do you just need to heavily research all the possible dive locations beforehand?

1) Search for SAC and RMV here on Scubaboard. How much air (in cu ft per minute) do you use at the surface in normal diving? Now multiply that by the number of atmospheres at 66 ft, for example. You will use 3x your surface consumption at that depth. Lots of threads. Learn how your dive computer might give you that information (though commonly not until you download your dives). Once you learn your average air consumption, you can use the planned depth of your upcoming dive to estimate how long you can stay down. Plus, a GREAT way to gauge your progress in relaxing - as you relax, you use/waste less air. If you enter your SAC or RMV in your logbook, it's fun to watch it go down over the course of a year's diving. It'll give you hard evidence of your improvement.

DURING the dive, have an idea (based on your known SAC) how many psi of tank pressure you'll use over a 10-15 minute period at your planned depth. If your consumption is significantly greater, a little alarm bell can go off in your head to alert you to the subtle current you hadn't realized you were working against, or the extra effort required to swim that new piece of gear you hadn't thought about. It'll allow you to turn your dive a little earlier, and come back safe.

2) No, don't sweat the details of trying to learn about dive sites you won't visit. Just pay close attention to the dive briefing, and perhaps ask questions about key landmarks, current, and the recommended starting direction as you go exploring (generally INTO the current). As you listen to the briefing, think about the factors other posters have mentioned above.
 
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