There's a diving company in southern West Virginia that are using divers that have no certifications in commercial diving. Is this illegal? I was talking to one of the guys and he said that the employer does most of the diving and uses them as a supervisor and tender. I can't find any laws about this and figured maybe someone on this site would know. I'm sure OSHA wouldn't like this but I'm more interested in federal and state laws.
People diving without certs.
- Thread starter Krysalis
- Start date
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it doesn't matter to me. I'm not gonna turn him in. It's just interesting to know because I was thinking about starting a business and have done some research through adci and they informed me I had to have someone with a dive supervisor card and at least two certified entry level tenders. So I kinda lost that dream. I was wondering if he's doing this because there's no federal or state laws governing this and it's just people that are setting safety standards telling me this. If he can train people without being certified that's awesome.
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DISCLAIMER; The following words are MY belief and may not coincide with other divers or this website. See, even I understand the power of the law-boys. (See bottom of post)
Im gonna open a wound here...
1. - The ADCI is not I repeat is not a governing body. Their issuance of dive cert cards mean nothing.
2. The ACDE (association of commercial diving educators) handle training within their standards. A commercial dive school in the USA need not be apart of the ACDE.
3. OSHA regulates only within the area of EMPLOYEE / EMPLOYER relationships. What this means is If a flyby night company is equally owned by the "divers" they are working for themselves. Now this is the deep dark gray area that most flybys work within.
example three guys start a company form a LLC and are working for themselves plus they waive there right to workmen comp. As long as they can find work. They can work. Now as for a person "diver" owner hiring couple of guys to tend/ three man team, this is just wrong. Hell, even the 3 man team thing is crap in my opinion. Its been years since I have worked with less the five persons or more.
unfortunately even Osha within the cfr's state a diver qualification AND here is the BIG cya for osha, diver must be a dive school graduate AND/OR field experience. Again this is the gray area flybys work within.
There have been a couple of hull cleaning companies that lost their collective ass because they employed divers and didnt satisfy OSHA regs for manning and equipment standards. Those companies earned their fines for not following the regulations set in place for employee/ employer relationship.
As for a hull cleaner working for themselves (one man company) they are not breaking any regulations. PERIOD
heck Ill even go one further and really stir a hornets nest. The USA has no Federal laws or regulations for SCUBA divers. YOU can buy all the equipment right down to HP compressor for filling ones own tanks. The SCUBA industry "polices" their own. Dive shops work with dive agency guidelines for things like air fills, no c- card no air filling, some shops also limit the life support gear and only sell to c-card carriers.
If you ARE thinking of starting a dive company AND you decide to work in the "gray" area be prepared for a crap storm from legit operators. It is my belief that those who fly against the grain on manning and equipment standards are DANGEROUS.
What is sad in today's divers, are individuals who hide behind regulations and never say anything. If something is amiss say something. We as an industry have to police our own.
Wont be long and the lawyers will have us wrapped in bubble wrap for our own protection.
Im gonna open a wound here...
1. - The ADCI is not I repeat is not a governing body. Their issuance of dive cert cards mean nothing.
2. The ACDE (association of commercial diving educators) handle training within their standards. A commercial dive school in the USA need not be apart of the ACDE.
3. OSHA regulates only within the area of EMPLOYEE / EMPLOYER relationships. What this means is If a flyby night company is equally owned by the "divers" they are working for themselves. Now this is the deep dark gray area that most flybys work within.
example three guys start a company form a LLC and are working for themselves plus they waive there right to workmen comp. As long as they can find work. They can work. Now as for a person "diver" owner hiring couple of guys to tend/ three man team, this is just wrong. Hell, even the 3 man team thing is crap in my opinion. Its been years since I have worked with less the five persons or more.
unfortunately even Osha within the cfr's state a diver qualification AND here is the BIG cya for osha, diver must be a dive school graduate AND/OR field experience. Again this is the gray area flybys work within.
There have been a couple of hull cleaning companies that lost their collective ass because they employed divers and didnt satisfy OSHA regs for manning and equipment standards. Those companies earned their fines for not following the regulations set in place for employee/ employer relationship.
As for a hull cleaner working for themselves (one man company) they are not breaking any regulations. PERIOD
heck Ill even go one further and really stir a hornets nest. The USA has no Federal laws or regulations for SCUBA divers. YOU can buy all the equipment right down to HP compressor for filling ones own tanks. The SCUBA industry "polices" their own. Dive shops work with dive agency guidelines for things like air fills, no c- card no air filling, some shops also limit the life support gear and only sell to c-card carriers.
If you ARE thinking of starting a dive company AND you decide to work in the "gray" area be prepared for a crap storm from legit operators. It is my belief that those who fly against the grain on manning and equipment standards are DANGEROUS.
What is sad in today's divers, are individuals who hide behind regulations and never say anything. If something is amiss say something. We as an industry have to police our own.
Wont be long and the lawyers will have us wrapped in bubble wrap for our own protection.
fstbttms
Contributor
Clear and concise. Thanks.
These guys are not doing much scuba it's more hard hat , surface supplied diving. Again the reason I posted this isn't for malicious purposes at all. If this guy knows the loop holes for hiring divers and running a commercial diving business without having certified hard hat divers good for him. I'd just like to know how he did it haha!
fstbttms
Contributor
I undersand that. OSHA regs are clearly intended for the hard hat dive industry, not for the recreational boat bottom cleaning biz and we have gone around and around about that particular issue here. But regarding your post, since this guy isn't carrying the proper commercial dive certs, even if he isn't operating illegally (which he almost certainly is), it seems unlikely that he could obtain insurance for the kind of work he is doing. Somebody could end up in a world of financial hurt.
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