PADI speciality courses

[RU4SKUBA]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that nearly all of those divers you just referenced could meet those goals but choose not to. In other words, they were taught how to set up their gear, plan a dive, dive a plan, track their air consumption, etc. Then they chose not to practice these skills because they'd rather pay someone else to do their thinking for them.

This is why I would argue vehemently against raising agency standards for OW certification. For good instructors, who understand time-management, the class is plenty long and offers more than enough information to safely dive.

Its my belief that OW divers have been given the minimum instruction necessary to dive under a very limited set of circumstances. How they advance their diving skills and knowledge has little to do with their original instructor, or agency, and everything to do with the students desire to learn.

This is why I like modular training. The students get to learn at their pace, learn what they want or need, and take personal responsibility for their learning. Forcing students to do everything in the OW course while hovering is fine, but they are really developing skills in class they should be developing during the course of their dive careers.

Nothing wrong with it, at all, but its just my opinion it belongs in AOW and specialties.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

To a point but when it is less than a month after the OW class? Or in some cases the week after. Something should have been retained.

To hit a few other points brought up in this thread:
Underwater Navigation to me is a core skill and the mark of a competent diver. A good Nav course will contain not just nav skills but communication, extensive practice in planning the dive, intense insistence on buddy skills as in the beginning nav is a team skill and team building skill. It should also put heavy emphasis on buoyancy, trim, non silting kicks, precise (helicopter) turns, selection of what technique to use, lines and reels, and documentation of the site. 3 or 4 dives is not enough. I put 6 in the one I wrote and would like to do more but I usually only have a weekend to get the dives done. There is 6 hours of classroom though as well.

I won't teach Fish ID or UW Photographer because I am not passionate about those areas and frankly that is a case where they could get better instruction from Amazon or Barnes and Noble. But I do know a marine biologist and a couple pro UW photographers who I would send them to. It would not be cheap but they would get a real education.

As for the manatee specialty, that was developed by the same outfit that ran afoul of one of the members of this board. he had videos of the outfit harassing the animals, corraling them so snorkelers could pet them, was threatened by one of the staff and they are the same one that was taking OW divers into caves in Florida.

 

[gcs118]

To hit a few other points brought up in this thread:
Underwater Navigation to me is a core skill and the mark of a competent diver. A good Nav course will contain not just nav skills but communication, extensive practice in planning the dive, intense insistence on buddy skills as in the beginning nav is a team skill and team building skill. It should also put heavy emphasis on buoyancy, trim, non silting kicks, precise (helicopter) turns, selection of what technique to use, lines and reels, and documentation of the site. 3 or 4 dives is not enough. I put 6 in the one I wrote and would like to do more but I usually only have a weekend to get the dives done. There is 6 hours of classroom though as well.

Slightly off topic, but I'm interested in some more info. - PM sent.

 

[pixiefish]

Back to PADI speciality courses.....this has been an interesting thread to read through. As an intermediate diver, I'm at the stage of looking at different areas of diving and seeing in which direction I want to head, and what further diving education I want to pursue, and have undertaken nitrox, and drysuit specialities (learnt in warm water, but live in UK). I am convinced of the value of good deep and wreck PADI speciality courses (ie when the instructor has a valid interest in these areas, am looking to undertake them with instructors who are also tec divers etc)

Can anyone share what navigation and search & recovery PADI specialities entail (ie min standards)??? A few times on this thread respected posters have said they can be valuable, and I'd never heard them spoken about like that before! Am I right in understanding that S&R is recommended pre-DM now?

 

[String]

Forcing students to do everything in the OW course while hovering is fine, but they are really developing skills in class they should be developing during the course of their dive careers.

Nothing wrong with it, at all, but its just my opinion it belongs in AOW and specialties.

Really? So you think its OK if an open water diver can only remove or clear their mask if they first stop swimming and find something to kneel on? Or they can only recover a regulator by going to their knees on the bottom and sweeping?
What if there isnt a convenient bottom around at the time?

 

[Quero]

Back to PADI speciality courses.....this has been an interesting thread to read through. As an intermediate diver, I'm at the stage of looking at different areas of diving and seeing in which direction I want to head, and what further diving education I want to pursue, and have undertaken nitrox, and drysuit specialities (learnt in warm water, but live in UK). I am convinced of the value of good deep and wreck PADI speciality courses (ie when the instructor has a valid interest in these areas, am looking to undertake them with instructors who are also tec divers etc)

Can anyone share what navigation and search & recovery PADI specialities entail (ie min standards)??? A few times on this thread respected posters have said they can be valuable, and I'd never heard them spoken about like that before! Am I right in understanding that S&R is recommended pre-DM now?

Pixiefish, this is a summary of the basic requirements for PADI's S&R and Nav spec courses:
For search and recovery, there is some study with knowledge reviews, discussions of search patterns with practice on land, rope pull signals between divers and between tender and divers, knot tying, object recovery and use of lifting devices; four dives--

Dive One
• Search for small object in 76 square metre/250 square feet area using circular/rope search pattern
• Search for larger object in 304 square metre/1000 square feet area using “U” pattern
• Recover object using lift bag

Dive Two
• Search for object in 304 square metre/1000 square feet area using expanding square pattern
• Recover object weighing 11kgs/25lbs to 23kgs/50lb using lift bag
• Return recovered object to shore or boat

Dive Three
• Search for object in 304 square metre/1000 square feet area using the jackstay pattern
• Recover object weighing 23kgs/50lb to 45kgs/100lbs using lift bag
• Return recovered object to shore or boat

Dive Four
• Interview Instructor about “lost” object.
• Organize, plan and conduct search and recovery dive with buddy
• Return recovered object to shore or boat

For navigation there is some classroom work on various topics including estimating distances underwater, using natural features for navigation, using underwater patterns for dive planning, compass use, locate a dive site while on the surface, plotting a course with a navigation aid such as the NavFinder; three dives--

Dive One
• Land practice with compass
• Distance/Time-Estimation swim
• Navigate straight-line/reciprocal underwater using natural navigation techniques
• Navigate straight-line/reciprocal underwater using a compass
• Navigate a square pattern underwater using a compass

Dive Two
• Land practice with compass and instructor provided navigation pattern
• Multiple-leg compass course (five or more heading changes), return to within 15 metres/50 feet of the starting point
• Fix a specific underwater location

Dive Three
• Land practice with compass
• Navigate a course underwater following marker headings (five or more heading changes)
• Map the marked course on a grid slate
• Relocate dive site from dive two (optional task)

Hope that helps!

 

[DevonDiver]

Really? So you think its OK if an open water diver can only remove or clear their mask if they first stop swimming and find something to kneel on? Or they can only recover a regulator by going to their knees on the bottom and sweeping?
What if there isnt a convenient bottom around at the time?

Trimix training?

 

[boulderjohn]

Forcing students to do everything in the OW course while hovering is fine, but they are really developing skills in class they should be developing during the course of their dive careers.

Nothing wrong with it, at all, but its just my opinion it belongs in AOW and specialties.

Really? So you think its OK if an open water diver can only remove or clear their mask if they first stop swimming and find something to kneel on? Or they can only recover a regulator by going to their knees on the bottom and sweeping?
What if there isnt a convenient bottom around at the time?

I like the concept of modular training in general, but I fully agree with String that divers leaving a basic OW course should be able to perform all critical skills in mid water. The word "force" is not apt in this case. If you teach students in a proper progression, they can learn do do this comfortably in the same amount of time (or even less) than it takes to learn the skills on the knees only, and students can do this at the end of their confined water sessions. Those who teach this way have found that students learn more easily this way. Teaching them to do the skills in the awkward position on their knees is actually harder.

 

[pixiefish]

Thanks Quero!!