PADI->ANDI crossover?

[BarryNL]

My local diveshop offers ANDI training and I was wondering where I'd have to enter the training chain with my current PADI Rescue + PADI Nitrox c-cards. I particularly want to follow the advanced SafeAir and tech diving paths - which courses would I need to begin with given my current PADI level?

 

[ScubaMike14]

I just looked at ANDI Internationals web site, it pretty much explains everything.

Here is the e-mail address for the training director Charlie Jonson: cjohnson@andihq.com

I suggest sending him an e-mail with your question.

Mike Rushton

 

[Hoosier]

Contact "padiscbuapro" in our board. He is a guy who is writting the ANDI text book.

 

[wedivebc]

My local diveshop offers ANDI training and I was wondering where I'd have to enter the training chain with my current PADI Rescue + PADI Nitrox c-cards. I particularly want to follow the advanced SafeAir and tech diving paths - which courses would I need to begin with given my current PADI level?

Padiscubapro on this board is training director for ANDI so he can best answer this but you already meet the prerequisite for CSU (level 2) or if you have basic nitrox already you could enroll in TSD (level 3) technical safeair diver. It is a good program with a very proven safety record.

 

[padiscubapro]

My local diveshop offers ANDI training and I was wondering where I'd have to enter the training chain with my current PADI Rescue + PADI Nitrox c-cards. I particularly want to follow the advanced SafeAir and tech diving paths - which courses would I need to begin with given my current PADI level?

Hi barry,

You meet the pre requisites to take CSU.. (all you really need is OW) Going directly to TSD although it MAY be possible (you would have to pass the CSU final exam to prove equivalency) really isn't recommended.. The CSU program is quite complete and is the equivalent to most other agencies nitrox plus advanced nitrox with the exception we don't certify you for more than 50% (There is no need above this for a recreational diver except on a CCR).. You do get all the information and then some...

Not having CSU will make TSD more difficult but not impossible What would normally be a review for CSU certified students would be new material to you.. If Its a private class, its not as big a problem as if you were part of a group and needed remedial instruction.

TSD would follow CSU, the training ins generally done in doubles and will train you to do deco dives up to 30 minutes of deco (you will do real deco in class, not just simulated deco)..

If you don't plan on going deeper than 50m the next class would be TTM (technical trimix), which is a limited trimix cert to 50m.. This is meant as an endpoint of training not as a stepping stone.. Even if you received this cert you would NOT be allowed to use trimix on the ERD program.

If you want to go deeper then the next program you need to take after TSD is ERD - extended range diver.. This is not about going deeper but rather expedition level training with multiple stages and unlimited deco and the planning thats required for this type of dive.. Its a 50m rating but you need to only do dives between 30m and 40m..

Finally TRIMIX - this is a full trimix cert with no depth limit after certification, but 100m during training.. This program is built on the expedition level training you received in ERD but now teaches you to safely use any TRIMIX mixture. You will need to do dives 60+m..if you are in an area where you cant get this depth but can get depths of at least 50m, then you would take the intermediate trimix porgram.. This has all the academics of the normal trimix cert, but with a 60m max depth limitation.. Its not part of the normal progression but is offered for people who cant get the required depths for full trimix certification.

 

[wedivebc]

If you don't plan on going deeper than 50m the next class would be TTM (technical trimix), which is a limited trimix cert to 50m.. This is meant as an endpoint of training not as a stepping stone.. Even if you received this cert you would NOT be allowed to use trimix on the ERD program.

I was not aware of that part. Can you explain the rationale behind it?

 

[padiscubapro]

I was not aware of that part. Can you explain the rationale behind it?

If you were doing level 4 type dives with depths between 40 and 50m you would be effectively doing an ITM class which is a level 5.. It shouldn't have to be stressed in an individual class standard.. The definaition of a l4 dive and l5 dive speak for themselves in our standards.. TTM is the ONE listed exception as its a l3 dive in complexity, but has limited use of He.. This was the one condition that all the ITDs agreed on to implement a l3 Trimix program

The purpose for TTM is to fill the void for those that just want to cut the narcosis and not go deeper.. Its not a pushed class because if the goal was deeper many people may push it beyond their official limits even though they dont have all the tools.. By forcing ERD to remain as is, it doesnt encourage the TTM program for those that have bigger goals..

 

[BarryNL]

Thanks for the info.

 

[wedivebc]

If you were doing level 4 type dives with depths between 40 and 50m you would be effectively doing an ITM class which is a level 5.. It shouldn't have to be stressed in an individual class standard.. The definaition of a l4 dive and l5 dive speak for themselves in our standards.. TTM is the ONE listed exception as its a l3 dive in complexity, but has limited use of He.. This was the one condition that all the ITDs agreed on to implement a l3 Trimix program

The purpose for TTM is to fill the void for those that just want to cut the narcosis and not go deeper.. Its not a pushed class because if the goal was deeper many people may push it beyond their official limits even though they dont have all the tools.. By forcing ERD to remain as is, it doesnt encourage the TTM program for those that have bigger goals..

So you are saying it prevents l3 TTM divers from "cheating" and going deeper? But one can't go any deeper than L3 on safeair without violating the ANDI N2 exposure rule so it seems more like a step backwards. Wouldn't the availability of helium at level 4 solve the "deep air" type dives that modern thinking divers are moving away from? If ERD is a prerequisite for L5 TMD why not give the students the availabilty to the bext gas for the job?

 

[padiscubapro]

So you are saying it prevents l3 TTM divers from "cheating" and going deeper? But one can't go any deeper than L3 on safeair without violating the ANDI N2 exposure rule so it seems more like a step backwards. Wouldn't the availability of helium at level 4 solve the "deep air" type dives that modern thinking divers are moving away from? If ERD is a prerequisite for L5 TMD why not give the students the availabilty to the bext gas for the job?

Helium is not need in the ERD class... ERD is about gear configuration not about deep air.. Nothing in the standards say you have to go to 50m thats just the certification limit.. all dives can be conducted between 30m and 40m with the right safeair mixture the PN2 is only 3.55 at 40m, surely this is within acceptable limits..

Helium in a l4 program effectively makes it the same as a l5 ITM program but without the prior experience..

the L4 program introduces additional complexity carrying multiple stages.. Buoyancy when diving with helium is much more important than when not.. You blow some stops on N2 only and your likely to get away with it, do the same on He mixes the chances are that you will not.. So in this case He is not the best gas.. With n2 only mixtures you have much more time to correct errors.. He offgasses much more quickly and the chance of getting bent while UNDERWATER is much more likely than an N2 only mix.

The idea of the progression is to get the diver competent with on set of gear, then additional gear and plannning, then finally once the diver is proficient add helium and depth...

Our philosophy has served us well we are Still accident and claims free over 18 years... no one else can claim this, no one else is even close... why should we adopt ways of those that ARE having accidents just to sell a class.. The incremental training tsd, erd, tmd have served us well in the past and I expect in the future as well..

I am all for using Helium but I know I woun't support a change that puts people on helium at specific levels of complexity before they are ready..


The TTM program is truely still a l3 type dive except it has He allowed.. The planning and equipment is that of a l3 diver..