Oceanic Eos Vs Zeagle Flathead 7

[zackalack8999]

I work at a Scuba diving store and we are an oceanic and zeagle dealer, among other companies. It's kind of an expectation for me to have gear that our store carries, so I've narrowed my regulator choices down to the oceanic EOS and the Zeagle Flathead 7. I would get a din fitting for either regulator as opposed to getting the Yoke with DVT on the Oceanic, as I read somewhere that the DVT provides another point of failure. How true is this statement? I understand what the DVT does, but I am not familiar with how it works. Also, does a DIN fitting eliminate the need for DVT? Does anyone have experience with both of these regulators? If so which would you recommend? Also would both of these regulators be okay for tech diving if I decide to get into it in the future? (I see no reason why not) If I were to take a GUE course, would these be compatible with their standards? I could also probably get a Hollis reg keyman if I talked to the owner. Any difference btw the 212 and the eos? They look the exact same. We also sell Mares, but I'm leaning towards these regs more than any of the Mares line.
Thanks,
Zack

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

You may wish to ask about GUE equipment standards in the DIR forum.

But from a non-DIR perspective : Scuba 1st stages survived happily for many years without DVT. A properly handled and cared for regulator (without DVT) will outlive the diver.

So this begs the question: Is DVT a great feature, a shameless gimmic, "a solution in search of a problem", or simply another potential failure point?

First, I don't think it is a serious potential failure point. I've never serviced a reg with it (yet), but from the diagrams/manuals I've looked at it looks pretty simple and reliable.... but, I'm not sure I see it as a "great feature", or even necessary. It just looks like one more thing to mess with when it comes time to service the reg, and I'm sort of a "less is more" kind of guy, so I'd really rather not have it if I have the choice.

My recommendation: Look beyond DVT when choosing a regulator. If you really like a regulator, whether or not it has DVT should not be an issue.

Both the regulators you listed are fine regulators. I like Zeagles (I have two Flathead VI's), but have also heard great things about the Oceanic EOS.

Assuming the DIR folks can't think of any objections to the regs you mentioned, then just buy whichever YOU like best.

Best Wishes.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

If you do chose the EOS, Stock up on at least one spare hose for it. Oceanic has a restrictive license on the swivel; they do not own the patent. When they build the next top of the line reg they just might move the one reg only swivel to that new top of the line reg. Then the next gen EOS will just get a normal hose connection and they will discontinue the EOS swivel hose, even though they will have many in inventory. Due to the patent issue they had to design the swivel connection threads of the EOS different from the Delta 4 so that the EOS swivel hose can not be used on any other Oceanic reg.

That's what happened to the Delta 4 when the EOS came out; no replacement swivel hose sales allowed, even though they must have had inventory. I was lucky to find a long hose Delta 4 diver here on SB who had his old swivel hose and sold it to me. Unfortunately this transpired after I had already ponied up for a new EOS; I probably would have bought something else out of principle. Good thing it was a key man deal, but from my perspective times have changed; the key man on the Delta 4 in '04 was $200 less than the key man on the EOS this year. :shocked2:

 

[keyshunter]

The dvt is not really a major failure point, but there have been issues with it being noisy. Unless a recent change has been made, the dvt must be removed to convert the reg to din, so that problem is not really germain.

The Zeagle FH 7 is merely a pared down version of the FH6 which is a superior first stage. It should be, since it is heavily drawn from the Apeks, for which Zeagle was US distributor until the year 2000.

Although Oceanic has finally gotten around to producing a pneumatically balanced second stage, it has a plastic air barrel. Since it has been in production for a relatively short time, it has a very short track record. The Zeagle second stage is a very close copy of the Apeks (also Titan LX and Legend) second stage. This second has a metal air barrel and a long and trouble free history.

My choice would certainly be the Zeagle.

 

[rrweather]

Good Point. Look in the Hollis and Oceanic specific forums and you will see multiple posts (many by me) from frustrated EOS/Hollis 212 owners looking to replace the swivel. One person ordered the long hose for their Hollis reg and the hose that was sent didn't fit. In fact, I have yet to hear from anyone that successfully ordered and received the longer hose. The good news is that the "new" Hollis 212 regs (and presumably the EOS but I would check personally before ordering) use standard LP hoses so miflex and any others are now an option.

My Hollis DC1/212 is a nice combo but the fact that I can't do anything but use the stock short hose that came with it pisses me off. What pisses me off even more is the fact that the questions of an adapter or info about ordering longer hoses has been ignored in both the Hollis and the Oceanic forums. I sent an e-mail to Hollis last week specifically asking about the hose and swivel. I am still waiting for a response.

If it were me, I would get the Zeagle. The support from other users and from Zeagle themselves seems great. It is hard to find a person that complains about a Zeagle reg they own.

After the swivel/hose issue and more importantly, the lack of response from Oceanic/Hollis, I will probably not buy another product from either company.

If you do chose the EOS, Stock up on at least one spare hose for it. Oceanic has a restrictive license on the swivel; they do not own the patent. When they build the next top of the line reg they just might move the one reg only swivel to that new top of the line reg. Then the next gen EOS will just get a normal hose connection and they will discontinue the EOS swivel hose, even though they will have many in inventory. Due to the patent issue they had to design the swivel connection threads of the EOS different from the Delta 4 so that the EOS swivel hose can not be used on any other Oceanic reg.

That's what happened to the Delta 4 when the EOS came out; no replacement swivel hose sales allowed, even though they must have had inventory. I was lucky to find a long hose Delta 4 diver here on SB who had his old swivel hose and sold it to me. Unfortunately this transpired after I had already ponied up for a new EOS; I probably would have bought something else out of principle. Good thing it was a key man deal, but from my perspective times have changed; the key man on the Delta 4 in '04 was $200 less than the key man on the EOS this year. :shocked2:

 

[Jimmer]

I have a set of Flathead VI's on my doubles, which as others have mentioned are virtually identical to the Flathead 7 internally and performance wise. I also have an EOS as a single tank setup. I would take the Zeagles over the Oceanic any day of the week, for any conditions. In particular, if you are looking to get into tech diving in the future, the stupid proprietary hose on the EOS is a major PITA, since you can only use Oceanic hoses on it.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

zackalack8999,

Not sure if you are still reading this thread, but in addition to the good info regarding the EOS swivel (I had no idea about that issue, thanks for sharing that info guys!), Zeagle service kits and parts are openly available on the internet (ZeagleExpress, others,) and the ability to get parts to service your own regs without having to know any "secret handshakes" is a huge plus.

Best wishes.

 

[elan]

I do not have experience with EOS but I have Aeris AT400 DVT which is CDX5 if I'm not mistaken. The problem I have is that the Aeris is very sensitive and prone to start flowing. Even in a pool with 80f water we could not stop it when we were draining the tank to 500psi to check the buoyancy. Lowering IP helped a bit but not much.

I once read an article about selecting a reg for tech diving and there was one important point mentioned which if taken into account renders EOS unusable for that purpose according to that article. The article was suggesting to stay away of over-balanced regulators as they increase the IP progressively with depth. So it would mean that the reg will have more chances of free-flowing when getting deeper. Over-balancing is claimed to compensate the increasing effort required to breath more dense air at depth. While it works more or less within rec depth it starts creating problems when going deeper. Past rec many uses trimix anyways so the
"dense air" problem is non-existent still the reg increases the IP and that contributes to the free flow especially in cold water.

If I'm not mistaken the EOS is overbalanced while FH 7 is not. So for me the choice is obvious here.

I own 2 FH6ses now and plan to get more zeagles for my stages.

 

[lucas*]

Also, does a DIN fitting eliminate the need for DVT?

I was under the impression that DVT was about keeping water out of the first stage if you didnt put on your dust cap properly before rinsing your reg. DIN has no equivalent, but so long as you remember to put the dust cap on you'll be fine. I think the DIN dust cap would be much harder to put on wrong anyway; Mines never leaked and I soak the regs for a good hour or so in clean water after diving.

Does anyone have experience with both of these regulators?

I was looking at these same 2, (well, EOS and the Flathead LT) and I went with the Zeagle because their business is a lot more transparent and I respect that. parts are freely available to the public, so shops will have a harder time lying to you about expensive replacement parts. Oceanic does have their "free parts" warranty thing, but the shops I asked about it charged more for servicing labour so there was no net gain for me, and if I ever missed a 12 month service interval it'd start costing me even more.

 

[zackalack8999]

going with the flathead and miflex, thanks guys